For Avisitor...Is Zen thinking of no-thought?

All things related to beginning Zen Practice. Here is where to exchange information between those that have already started Zen training and those planning to do so.
User avatar
desert_woodworker
Posts: 1501
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:20 am
Location: Southern Arizona desert, USA

Re: For Avisitor...Is Zen thinking of no-thought?

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed May 15, 2019 1:05 am

Really? Nothing since 12 days ago?

I won't hold our current bunch of Members on-the-spot for helping, or opining. Simple.

Maybe it's Vacation time?, and time for being away? I'm for the Islands, too. Cover-up, or use sun-block, you Caucasians! Or, at least, enough of that chemical stuff. Be safe.

Enver, you already know the answer, given here. It's up to you to test it, or believe it. No, there is no "Zen". But, there is Zen Buddhist practice.

--Joe

User avatar
loves' the unjust
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Ankara, turkey

Re: For Avisitor...Is Zen thinking of no-thought?

Post by loves' the unjust » Fri May 17, 2019 1:54 pm

desert_woodworker wrote: Enver, you already know the answer, given here. It's up to you to test it, or believe it. No, there is no "Zen". But, there is Zen Buddhist practice.
Thank you, always appreciate.

What is the difference between Zen and Zen Buddhist practice in your point of view?


eer, let me say,

Zen is being cut off that chemical stuff. eh?
cooper

User avatar
loves' the unjust
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Ankara, turkey

Re: For Avisitor...Is Zen thinking of no-thought?

Post by loves' the unjust » Sat May 18, 2019 9:54 am

The one who couldn't been able to save himself can be able to save others?

I don't think so
cooper

User avatar
loves' the unjust
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Ankara, turkey

Re: For Avisitor...Is Zen thinking of no-thought?

Post by loves' the unjust » Sat May 25, 2019 8:23 am

Again is zen thinking of no thought?
cooper

Caodemarte
Posts: 480
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:02 pm

Re: For Avisitor...Is Zen thinking of no-thought?

Post by Caodemarte » Sat May 25, 2019 7:03 pm

loves' the unjust wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 8:23 am
Again is zen thinking of no thought?
“....In Japanese Soto Zen, another name for non-thinking is shikantaza. It is wide awake awareness that is simply present with what arises, an awareness in which awareness itself and the contents of awareness are unseparated.We don’t apply tools like evaluation, analysis, or logic to what arises. These are habits of mind mobilized to serve our agendas. And if these habits do mobilize in zazen, they’re simply accepted as more scenery within our spacious awareness, no different from the sound of a bird outside or a twinge of stiffness in the neck. In other words, breath by breath, we drop any agenda. We abide, wide awake, in non-agency. This is thinking non-thinking...

Why did Yaoshan say “thinking non-thinking” rather than just saying “I’m not thinking?” I think it’s because there is effort involved in zazen; the mind is fully engaged and absorbed. It’s a kind of stillness, but it’s a dynamic stillness. The thinking equipment is actively engaged in non-thinking. In other words, it’s not a “not-doing;” it’s a ‘different doing.’ “
http://peterschireson.com/non-thinking/

User avatar
loves' the unjust
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Ankara, turkey

Re: For Avisitor...Is Zen thinking of no-thought?

Post by loves' the unjust » Sat May 25, 2019 8:00 pm

Thanks Caodemarte
cooper

User avatar
loves' the unjust
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Ankara, turkey

Re: For Avisitor...Is Zen thinking of no-thought?

Post by loves' the unjust » Sat May 25, 2019 8:01 pm

Our life turn into a cartoon movie.
cooper

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 2463
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: For Avisitor...Is Zen thinking of no-thought?

Post by fuki » Sat May 25, 2019 10:27 pm

loves' the unjust wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 8:01 pm
Our life turn into a cartoon movie.
No what's "ours" is the light, the nature of perception and the screen, what is projected on the screen is not ours/You, eventhough there is a movie you know that appearance is an illusion, the light does not move. The movement/movie is the mind, not You.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

User avatar
loves' the unjust
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Ankara, turkey

Re: For Avisitor...Is Zen thinking of no-thought?

Post by loves' the unjust » Sun May 26, 2019 7:31 am

no problem, buddy.
cooper

User avatar
Mason
Posts: 302
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: For Avisitor...Is Zen thinking of no-thought?

Post by Mason » Fri May 31, 2019 7:30 pm

IMO it's more of a video game than a cartoon movie. Action and effort are necessary, but there will also be times when cutscenes happen by themselves. Use your body, your speech (inward and outward), and your mind (how you perceive/interpret things) as your controller and make the right moves! :105:
"The Way needs no cultivation, just do not defile. What is defilement? When with a mind of birth and death one acts in a contrived way, then everything is a defilement. If one wants to know the Way directly: Ordinary Mind is the Way!"

- Record of Ma-tsu

User avatar
loves' the unjust
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Ankara, turkey

Re: For Avisitor...Is Zen thinking of no-thought?

Post by loves' the unjust » Fri May 31, 2019 7:44 pm

Video games is best, thanks.
cooper

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 2463
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: For Avisitor...Is Zen thinking of no-thought?

Post by fuki » Fri May 31, 2019 8:39 pm

Mason wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 7:30 pm
IMO it's more of a video game than a cartoon movie.
True about that analogy, yet in the "real life" videogame model, eventhough it's all an illusion it nonetheless has very real consequences, which is a bit different in the video game video game :)
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 2463
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: For Avisitor...Is Zen thinking of no-thought?

Post by fuki » Fri May 31, 2019 10:52 pm

loves' the unjust wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 7:44 pm
Video games is best, thanks.
my xbox 360 died/kaput-ted a few years ago so no more games for me, but all I ever played were NHL games, the best.
I've never gotten those war/shooting games, always gave me a "funny feeling" it's "too real" ;)
I'd still prefer the old games, arcade, commodore 64, these days games are so overloading to the main-brain, more options, more graphic details, and ppl keep buying them since that is what capatalism tells us, more and more means happier! :107:
neanderthals-cave_man-caveman-cave_dwellers-stone_age-history-CC144754_low.jpg
neanderthals-cave_man-caveman-cave_dwellers-stone_age-history-CC144754_low.jpg (121.89 KiB) Viewed 555 times
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 2463
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: For Avisitor...Is Zen thinking of no-thought?

Post by fuki » Fri May 31, 2019 11:32 pm

Another interesting difference between video games and watching movies, or watching the news or whatever modification of consciousness (resonating frequancee/channel) When you're watching there is only a witness position, a kind of "aloofness" knowing you are not the body-mind or whatever happens on the screen, yet when playing video games it becomes an experience, since one is invested in the game (why else play it) so whatever you do in the video game can be tricky, hence my mentioning of "war/shooting" games, eventhough you know it's only a game I could never really feel good or happy about shooting some imagined "enemy" in a video game, playing sports is something I love in "real life" too so hence that's what I sought for in the experience of video games too. or ofcourse when I was 11 years old and saw Samantha Fox strip poker for the Commodore 64. I had to get it, and my mom was allright with it! :lol:
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

User avatar
Great Sage EofH
Posts: 475
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:55 pm

Re: For Avisitor...Is Zen thinking of no-thought?

Post by Great Sage EofH » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:27 pm

Late in life Dogen revised his text to say "no thought" means (drumroll) actually no thought. Any thoughts about that?
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

User avatar
loves' the unjust
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Ankara, turkey

Re: For Avisitor...Is Zen thinking of no-thought?

Post by loves' the unjust » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:46 pm

I actually think no thought is much to say about no thought.
cooper

avisitor
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:13 am
Location: Albany, NY

Re: For Avisitor...Is Zen thinking of no-thought?

Post by avisitor » Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:42 am

Great Sage EofH wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 5:14 am
The yogic method is done by brute force. But here, we let go of thinking, let go of controlling it. Even the highly concentrated samadhi mind is not brought about by force. Neither does it force us to do or think anything either.
So when one is in practice, the mind is watching breath
But then, it starts to force upon itself and the mind then takes over the breath
Slows it down as in trying to slow the thoughts down

If watching breath and letting thoughts go
A clarity of mind should be the results
And not this slow breathing which is a reflection of the mind in being controlled

The grip is solid but not so tight as to loose what on is holding onto
Sorry, just my opinion

avisitor
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:13 am
Location: Albany, NY

Re: For Avisitor...Is Zen thinking of no-thought?

Post by avisitor » Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:50 am

loves' the unjust wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:46 pm
I actually think no thought is much to say about no thought.
How is your practice going?
Have you talked with others who are interested in Zen Buddhism?
I have looked at all the stuff on Facebook.
Lots of snappy sayings and quotes
Lots of professing love and compassion
Worst part is that everyone seems to think they know better than the previous person
And try so hard to spread the word of peace and love
It brings one no closer to the truth of one's nature

So, what are you thinking?

User avatar
loves' the unjust
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Ankara, turkey

Re: For Avisitor...Is Zen thinking of no-thought?

Post by loves' the unjust » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:32 am

avisitor wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:50 am
loves' the unjust wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:46 pm
I actually think no thought is much to say about no thought.
How is your practice going?
Have you talked with others who are interested in Zen Buddhism?
I have looked at all the stuff on Facebook.
Lots of snappy sayings and quotes
Lots of professing love and compassion
Worst part is that everyone seems to think they know better than the previous person
And try so hard to spread the word of peace and love
It brings one no closer to the truth of one's nature

So, what are you thinking?

hello avisitor

my parents are old
in a few years i'll be alone
As a goal i've planned to learn the zen practice and put it in daily life in this passing time
in this aspect
i've cultivate my self very quick here
Very successful
i thank everyone here
because of leaving none of my question unanswered
as
two weeks ago i've understand the teaching
two days ago i've understand the practice
very quick steps have been taken
next step will automaticaly and naturaly will take to me to zazen, as it seems

i've no account on the social media
nor any connection with a zen people
as once a friend said the social media is hell
like modern gossip places
i see

wre my final thoughts

Stay heavy stay cool :)
cooper

Post Reply