Sheng Yen; Emptiness and Loneliness

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Sheng Yen; Emptiness and Loneliness

Post by fuki » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:29 pm

Read this in one of the pdf's a while back and translated it for my mother to help her see the causal link of her future fear of loneliness, but thought it was a good place to share here too in the beginners space regarding ("wrong") views of emptiness.


Emptiness and Loneliness

Do mind and matter genuinely exist? If we were to analyze them thoroughly, we would see that their existence is only temporary. But does this mean that mind and matter do not actually exist? If we were to break time down into all its separate moments, we would see that actually time does not exist. This is also true of space. If we kept cutting it up into smaller and smaller parts, we would not find the actual existence of space. But on the other hand, the connection between different moments in time does exist and spatial relationships between objects also exist.
If, seeking to avoid the attachment to existence, you fall into the trap of the false views of emptiness, then that is like being afraid of getting drowned and jumping into the fire.

Therefore, people who do not understand Buddhadharma may have one of two false ideas about emptiness. The first, emptiness from a temporal point of view, is called “the emptiness of termination and extinction.” Those who hold this view think that things just arise and vanish spontaneously, without events in the past causing results in the present and without events in the present causing results in the future. This is emptiness of temporal relationship. The other kind of false idea of emptiness can be called “the weird sense of emptiness.” This is emptiness from a spatial point of view: one sees the phenomena as completely illusory, therefore not to be taken seriously. It is very likely that people who hold either of these two false conceptions will have moral or ethical problems, and may lack a central focus in their lives.

From the point of view of Buddhadharma, emptiness is much different. Buddhism believes that whatever was done in the past caused a result in the present, and whatever is done in the present will cause a result in the future. But if we split time into its many segments, then existence can only be true for that segment. It is not real in that sense. And since time is constantly changing, causes are changing, and the effects are also changing. There isn’t any certain unchanging consequence, nor is there any certain unchanging cause. Therefore it is void, but cause and effect are still there.

Question: In Buddhist works they say that nirvana is not an effect that can be attained through some kind of cause. If nirvana is supposed to be the state of true reality, it seems that someone who reaches this state is exempt from cause and effect. Is this so?

Sheng Yen: Nirvana is not a thing; nirvana is when you personally experience, and understand, and recognize that everything is void, or empty. Through the practice, you gradually come to experience that there is no real space or time that you can hold on to. So you can say that nirvana is the result of practice, but it is not a result of something changing into something else. If certain things happen, we cannot say that these things didn’t happen. If we simply ignore the fact that these things happened, then we fall into the view called “the weird sense of emptiness.” But on the other hand we also realize that whatever happens is not something eternal or unchanging. So there is no need to take it too seriously or to be attached to it. If we are attached to it, that is a vexation.

If you hold on to the false views of emptiness and if you deny the law of cause and effect (karma), then you are in a very dangerous position. You may think that all phenomena are unreal and you don’t have to practice morality. With this lack of responsibility, you will create a lot of evil karma and you will suffer the consequences. Being attached to existence will give you vexations, but being attached to the false views of emptiness will give you even greater problems. If, seeking to avoid the attachment to existence, you fall into the trap of the false views of emptiness, then that is like being afraid of getting drowned and jumping into the fire. From the Buddhist point of view, we take the Middle Way, that is, in emptiness there is existence and existence itself is empty.

Question: Does a practitioner necessarily have to go through times when he has the two false conceptions of emptiness?

Sheng Yen: Not necessarily. It depends on whether he or she gets proper guidance. It may happen, especially to people without a good foundation in Buddhism. One student, after returning home after her first retreat, felt that life was very gloomy and meaningless. She felt like giving away everything, breaking all contacts with the world, and just practice by herself. Later, she borrowed and read many books from the Center, and by the third retreat, her attitude changed and she really opened up to life and the world. Others have gone through a similar stage. The reason is that through hard practice these people experienced a deep feeling of emptiness without, however, having enough understanding of Buddhism as a basis.

Question: Where does the feeling of a deep sense of loneliness come from?

Sheng Yen: People who cannot connect themselves with the outside world in terms of space and time, who do not understand cause and effect, and causes and conditions, will feel lonely. When I was in solitary retreat, I knew that I was together with all sentient beings in innumerable worlds. Even though I seemed to be alone in a small, enclosed room, actually I was in company with many ants who found their way inside, and insects outside of the hut created all kinds of sounds in the evening. When I opened the sutras, people thousands of years in the past were talking to me. How could I feel lonely? Some people think that I must feel lonely being a monk without any wife or children. Not at all. I have the five precepts and the ten virtuous deeds as my wife and my children are all the people with whom I have developed a karmic affinity, and who call me Shifu (Teacher). It is only people who isolate themselves and cannot establish a relationship with the outside world who feel lonely. If you keep yourself enclosed, even if you live among thousands of people you will still feel very lonely. However, if you keep yourself open, then even if you are living alone, you will still have a very full life. So, open your mind and treat everyone you meet as your intimate, virtuous friend.

http://ddmba.org/pages/teachings/wisdom ... liness.php
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Re: Sheng Yen; Emptiness and Loneliness

Post by fuki » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:41 pm

Additional videos from Master Sheng Yen;

The true meaning of emptiness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L069esCjCR0

Realizing emptiness versus understanding emptiness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWqvLECQxGQ
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Re: Sheng Yen; Emptiness and Loneliness

Post by Caodemarte » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:23 pm

:560:

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Re: Sheng Yen; Emptiness and Loneliness

Post by Nothing » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:29 pm

A very good reminder that if emptiness not understood in the light of dependent origination can lead to false views and incorrect practice or no practice at all.

Thanks for your post Fuki.

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Re: Sheng Yen; Emptiness and Loneliness

Post by desert_woodworker » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:09 am

N., et al.,
Nothing wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:29 pm
A very good reminder that if emptiness not understood in the light of dependent origination can lead to false views and incorrect practice or no practice at all.
I'd say that when one has a good long continuing experience of emptiness, in the awakened condition, there's no risk of mis-"understanding" it in any way, AND that, in the awakened condition, dependent origination is extremely obvious: it is a feature on the face and in the depth of every object and event or occurrence.

Where there is risk, I'd say, is in believing that any solely intellectual "understanding" of emptiness is adequate and accurate unto itself, or that such a solely intellectual appreciation of emptiness gives any indication of the inseparability of dependent origination from the fact and matrix of emptiness.

Before "they" were ever intellectualized about -- emptiness, and dependent origination -- they were experienced by practitioners, who knew and know them intimately in daily life, and not through any effort of mentation or cogitation. Again, as usual, the gulf between experience and "understanding" via a moving mind, is vast. "They are different animals". :evil:

:namaste:

--Joe

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Re: Sheng Yen; Emptiness and Loneliness

Post by Nothing » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:20 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:09 am
N., et al.,

I'd say that when one has a good long continuing experience of emptiness, in the awakened condition, there's no risk of mis-"understanding" it in any way, AND that, in the awakened condition, dependent origination is extremely obvious: it is a feature on the face and in the depth of every object and event or occurrence.

Where there is risk, I'd say, is in believing that any solely intellectual "understanding" of emptiness is adequate and accurate unto itself, or that such a solely intellectual appreciation of emptiness gives any indication of the inseparability of dependent origination from the fact and matrix of emptiness.

Before "they" were ever intellectualized about -- emptiness, and dependent origination -- they were experienced by practitioners, who knew and know them intimately in daily life, and not through any effort of mentation or cogitation. Again, as usual, the gulf between experience and "understanding" via a moving mind, is vast. "They are different animals". :evil:

:namaste:

--Joe
:560:

Not that disagree with you, but if may I add that imo a correct intellectual understanding of emptiness, dependent origination is important for correct practice.

Gassho

Viktor

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Re: Sheng Yen; Emptiness and Loneliness

Post by desert_woodworker » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:11 pm

Hi, N.,
Nothing wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:20 pm
Not that disagree with you, but if may I add that imo a correct intellectual understanding of emptiness, dependent origination is important for correct practice.
Yes, that is what the claim is, which we have probably all heard, even from authoritative quarters (people who ought to know better).

The problem with the claim is that, before one directly experiences it, and experiences it on a continuous and unintermittent basis, no one knows what "dependent-origination" truly is. The idea that one has of it, while in samsara, is a view of "it" which is conditioned by the mind of samsara, and hence it is a faulty notion.

In addition, we may look at the career of Shakyamuni Buddha: he did not sit down under the Bodhi tree with a front-loaded notion of what dependent-origination is or may be. But he was able to mention it and name it in his talks with others later, after he was seeing clearly.

As practitioners, I think it is essential in any case to practice just as our teacher recommends. All will become clear through correct practice. Some teachers might drag dependent-origination in as a front-loaded notion to perfume one's practice. Others definitely won't do that.

Much more important -- and far less risky or obstructive than holding a fixed philosophical notion -- is correct posture, and deepest relaxation attained by cultivation in physical practices. That's as I've seen it, in my practice and in others'.

All best,

--Joe
Best wishes for strong practice!

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Re: Sheng Yen; Emptiness and Loneliness

Post by Nothing » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:52 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:11 pm
Hi, N.,
Nothing wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:20 pm
Not that disagree with you, but if may I add that imo a correct intellectual understanding of emptiness, dependent origination is important for correct practice.
Yes, that is what the claim is, which we have probably all heard, even from authoritative quarters (people who ought to know better).

The problem with the claim is that, before one directly experiences it, and experiences it on a continuous and unintermittent basis, no one knows what "dependent-origination" truly is. The idea that one has of it, while in samsara, is a view of "it" which is conditioned by the mind of samsara, and hence it is a faulty notion.

In addition, we may look at the career of Shakyamuni Buddha: he did not sit down under the Bodhi tree with a front-loaded notion of what dependent-origination is or may be. But he was able to mention it and name it in his talks with others later, after he was seeing clearly.

As practitioners, I think it is essential in any case to practice just as our teacher recommends. All will become clear through correct practice. Some teachers might drag dependent-origination in as a front-loaded notion to perfume one's practice. Others definitely won't do that.

Much more important -- and less risky than holding a philosophical notion -- is correct posture, and deepest relaxation attained by physical practices.

--Joe
Thanks for the reply Joe!

Just to be clear, by correct practice I mean practice under a teacher, and not practicing alone.

But I am sure that most first read and learn about Buddhism and then decide to practice or not under teacher and not the other way around, cause that way one would not know what one is practicing and won't understand his teacher instructions, pointers ,so his practice won't be successful, a blind practice.

So in that context some intellectual understanding of the fundamental Buddhist teachings is necessary most of the time.

But yes, until one directly experiences it, one does not know truly what it is.
Personally I fully agree that holding a philosophical notions can be dangerous, especially for the western practitioner so I am all for more practice and less reading unless a teacher recommend so :)

Viktor :namaste:

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Re: Sheng Yen; Emptiness and Loneliness

Post by desert_woodworker » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:25 pm

N.,

Very nice to chat!, Thanks! Quite as before, at ZFI; very pleasant to share.
Nothing wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:52 pm
So in that context some intellectual understanding of the fundamental Buddhist teachings is necessary most of the time.
I think it's most often very much unnecessarily overdone. Stultifying.

Here's a different scenario: people come to a teacher because they feel they could be more awake in daily life, and less distant or alienated from Nature and from beings. The teacher says, "Yes!, good!, it's possible to wake up. There are simple methods: here's how; these are ancient ways, and they've worked for at least 25 centuries. Let's begin."

I think that not much more need be said in that teaching circle. A lot depends on the student... .

My master, Sheng Yen, used to say, "Intellectuals are the ones who have the hardest time in Ch'an Buddhist practice; they are always 'trying to figure things out' !". (may he rest in the deepest peace).

--Joe

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Re: Sheng Yen; Emptiness and Loneliness

Post by bodhi » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:25 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:09 am
Where there is risk, I'd say, is in believing that any solely intellectual "understanding" of emptiness is adequate and accurate unto itself, or that such a solely intellectual appreciation of emptiness gives any indication of the inseparability of dependent origination from the fact and matrix of emptiness.
Matrix of emptiness? Anyway, the basic concept behind emptiness/dependent origniation is non-duality, which is difficult to grasp or appreciate conceptually but this is really no big deal. If experienced, well, it's just an experience. It's a beneficial experience, I believe, because it tends to relieve existential anxiety, and that's great, but it's not really transformative in any other way.

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Re: Sheng Yen; Emptiness and Loneliness

Post by Nothing » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:57 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:25 pm
N.,

Very nice to chat!, Thanks! Quite as before, at ZFI; very pleasant to share.
Nothing wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:52 pm
So in that context some intellectual understanding of the fundamental Buddhist teachings is necessary most of the time.
I think it's most often very much unnecessarily overdone. Stultifying.

Here's a different scenario: people come to a teacher because they feel they could be more awake in daily life, and less distant or alienated from Nature and from beings. The teacher says, "Yes!, good!, it's possible to wake up. There are simple methods: here's how; these are ancient ways, and they've worked for at least 25 centuries. Let's begin."

I think that not much more need be said in that teaching circle. A lot depends on the student... .

My master, Sheng Yen, used to say, "Intellectuals are the ones who have the hardest time in Ch'an Buddhist practice; they are always 'trying to figure things out' !". (may he rest in the deepest peace).

--Joe
Likewise Joe :hatsoff:

I can not speak of the situation in the east since, but yes, in the west more often than not is stultifying. (learned new word today ):)

The scenario you describing is probably the ideal one and there is nothing wrong with it and it is not unreal, and worked in the east and maybe is still working today, ( I really do not know, maybe you are much more familiar with the situation there these days). But in the west I do not think that scenario is common at all, but do not mind to be corrected. The causes, beside the disease of the intellect, is maybe the disillusionment with the abrahamic religions and the rice of the skepticism, the emphasis on one's individuality, and believing that science is the way to the Truth, so most have hard time to have faith in the religions of the east and the teachers as their representatives and discard them quite quickly without giving them any fair chance or do not discard them but never dive deep enough, not that I blame them, just commenting.

Great quote by Master Sheng Yen :115:

Gassho,

Viktor

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Re: Sheng Yen; Emptiness and Loneliness

Post by desert_woodworker » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:25 pm

hiya, b.,
bodhi wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:25 pm
Matrix of emptiness?
Yessir. I'm saying there that emptiness is the matrix in which dependent-origination takes place. The "two" are not so much two as they are one, or none, but "ok".

All imperfect words, admittedly. Yet, delighted and grateful to be able to share what can be shared. I'm reminded of Wallace Steven's poem- ending of his poem, "The Poems of Our Climate" (from 1942):

...

"The imperfect is our paradise.
Note that, in this bitterness, delight,
Since the imperfect is so hot in us,
Lies in flawed words and stubborn sounds."

(The full poem is below: )

------------------------------------------

"The Poems of Our Climate"

by Wallace Stevens (1942)

I
Clear water in a brilliant bowl,
Pink and white carnations. The light
In the room more like a snowy air,
Reflecting snow. A newly-fallen snow
At the end of winter when afternoons return.
Pink and white carnations - one desires
So much more than that. The day itself
Is simplified: a bowl of white,
Cold, a cold porcelain, low and round,
With nothing more than the carnations there.

II
Say even that this complete simplicity
Stripped one of all one's torments, concealed
The evilly compounded, vital I
And made it fresh in a world of white,
A world of clear water, brilliant-edged,
Still one would want more, one would need more,
More than a world of white and snowy scents.

III
There would still remain the never-resting mind,
So that one would want to escape, come back
To what had been so long composed.
The imperfect is our paradise.
Note that, in this bitterness, delight,
Since the imperfect is so hot in us,
Lies in flawed words and stubborn sounds.

--------------------------------------------------------
bodhi wrote: It's a beneficial experience, I believe, because it tends to relieve existential anxiety, and that's great, but it's not really transformative in any other way.
I have to say that I find great beauty there, when there's nothing else. That's been transformative. I've not been to the Louvre, but I don't have to go. But if I go, I won't be disappointed.

--Joe

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Re: Sheng Yen; Emptiness and Loneliness

Post by fuki » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:44 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:25 pm

I have to say that I find great beauty there, when there's nothing else. That's been transformative. I've not been to the Louvre, but I don't have to go. But if I go, I won't be disappointed.
Good relationship advice.

Eh Larry? :lol: :hatsoff:
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Re: Sheng Yen; Emptiness and Loneliness

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:59 am

Bodhi,

I'll keep silence, Noble or not, about some of the questions. Sometimes it's the best policy. And maybe I'm also tired.

"Weary of considerations", someone somewhere once famously said, sometime... . It's been a busy day in deep conversation.

But what I've written is true for me.

The best an interested party can do is take up the practice(s) that suit(s) one, and open to these things. Then we may have occasion to discuss more, by way of appreciation, not information.

I have an inkling of what you mean about the possibility of the holdings of the Louvre becoming overwhelming, in strong doses or exposures to them: I studied, lived, and worked in New York City for years and made many, many trips to The Met(ropolitan Museum of Art), MoMA, the Frick Collection, the Photography museum on the Upper East Side (I forget the name, it's been 40 years), Museum of Natural History, and others. Whew. Sometimes just to see special shows, and other times to wander, and go only so far, but to concentrate on a certain room or collection. Else, yes, things can become a blur. I came to make good use of "museum benches": I'd like to sit for long minutes taking in one piece, and then of course to go close and look at the brushwork, too. Or the tool-marks on the sculptures.

best,

--Joe

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Re: Sheng Yen; Emptiness and Loneliness

Post by Anders » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:02 am

Nothing wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:20 pm
Not that disagree with you, but if may I add that imo a correct intellectual understanding of emptiness, dependent origination is important for correct practice.

Gassho

Viktor
Not that I disagree, but "correct intellectual understanding of emptiness" is one of those battle grounds that quickly give rise to situations invoking the parable of the poisoned arrow.

I rather like East Asian madhyamika and feel it is a shame it is so overlooked in the western Buddhist sphere. It feels in tune with Zen and you can see how Sanlun guys like Jizang and Sengzhao really influenced the chan masters that came centuries later.

Another reason I like them better than the Tibetan madhyamika presentations is that madhyamika for them was a living and breathing teaching who used it to truly go beyond conception. I may be doing a disservice to Tibetan Buddhism here, but they seem to present it more as an analytical tool or as course curriculum for the cultured Buddhist, than as something that cuts to the very heart of your practice.

At any rate, returning to "correct intellectual understanding of emptiness", I would say that for practical purposes, such an understanding amounts to having resolved that our experience can not be captured by concepts; that going beyond all concept is desirable; and that cause and effect is ubiquitous. A basic understanding of the two truths is perhaps also helpful. That's about it.

Further elaboration is mostly for those who are intellectually stubborn and are not able to put down concepts until they have fully comprehended all the arguments the madhyamikas put forth for why you should do that. "good horses run at the mere shadow of the whip".

I tried the stubborn approach and can't really recommend it. The habit also takes a fair while to shake once you realise you don't need it anymore. :oops: I am told there is a phase of post awakening practise where deep study also deepens one's experience in an experiential mirroring dialectic. Sounds nice.

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Re: Sheng Yen; Emptiness and Loneliness

Post by lindama » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:42 am

desert_woodworker wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:25 pm
hiya, b.,
bodhi wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:25 pm
Matrix of emptiness?
Yessir. I'm saying there that emptiness is the matrix in which dependent-origination takes place. The "two" are not so much two as they are one, or none, but "ok".
hmmmm, emptiness is not a matrix. there is no inherent quality to emptiness. it has nothing to do with empty or full, one or two

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Re: Sheng Yen; Emptiness and Loneliness

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:20 am

lindama wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:42 am
desert_woodworker wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:25 pm
hiya, b.,
bodhi wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:25 pm
Matrix of emptiness?
Yessir. I'm saying there that emptiness is the matrix in which dependent-origination takes place. The "two" are not so much two as they are one, or none, but "ok".
hmmmm, emptiness is not a matrix. there is no inherent quality to emptiness. it has nothing to do with empty or full, one or two
Hmm-m, you both misunderstand me. And it's my fault, for the structure of my sentence in the first reply-post, which I later re-formed to the words in the quote you make above, Linda.

Again I stress that these, and all others, are "imperfect words" (see Stevens' poem). And maybe "stubborn sounds". Or, it's 'bodhi's' and your sounds that are stubborn (I forgive you both). ;)

To have another go, I will say that dependent origination takes place in emptiness, yes, and so I was saying that emptiness is (was, in my experience) the "matrix" in which dependent origination takes place. I will add that, if one is not dwelling in emptiness, say, day after day, and experiencing emptiness, following an awakening, then one does not see dependent origination. So, without the "Mother" (matrix... ) of emptiness, then, dependent origination, in all its haunting beauty and limpidness, is not seen: Missed, and no lively intimation of it. One is just not awake to it.

Well!, then, :namaste:

--Joe

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Re: Sheng Yen; Emptiness and Loneliness

Post by fuki » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:41 am

Thanks everyone, this convers-ation reminded me of an "old" joke.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=181&p=4499#p4499
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Re: Sheng Yen; Emptiness and Loneliness

Post by jundocohen » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:59 am

Of course, simply for the record, one can believe in models of dependent origination which focus only upon events in this life, putting aside questions about whether dependent origination is a system for postmortem rebirth. One can still act morally and ethically.

One need not believe that there is a mechanical relationship of bad volitional past actions directly leading to some future bad effects in lock step fashion (although generally bad volitional actions will have a tendency to cause harm in some way, to the actor and those impacted by the actions). Even believing so, one can still act morally and ethically.

I introduce dependent origination to my students in modern terms as not unrelated to models of child development, such as by Piaget and others, in which one is conceived in the womb without a sense of being an independent self, which sense forms over the coming months and years as sense data is categorized and imposed with all manner of judgments by the mind, leading to our accompanying aversions and attractions to the many seemingly outside things we come to identify in the world, which sense of separate self also leads to a sense of having been born, aging and dying. Our Zen Practice breaks the chain which creates the sense of independent self filled with aversions and attractions, and returns us to a sense of unity in harmony with the "non-self" in which nothing is experienced as lacking, and birth & death were not quite what they may seem. (I simplify in a nutshell for this posting)

This preserves dependent origination as a valuable teaching for many of us who have little interest in matters of future lives, and avoids the hazards of nihilism or eternalism. Plus, one should still act morally and ethically because, one-to-one cause/effect relationship or not, bad actions tend to cause harm and separate us from being able to realize that unity and harmony.

Gassho, J
Teacher at Treeleaf Zendo, a Soto Zen Sangha, an online practice place for folks who cannot commute to a Zen Center due to health, living in remote areas, work or family needs. The focus is Shikantaza 'Just Sitting' Zazen http://www.treeleaf.org

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Re: Sheng Yen; Emptiness and Loneliness

Post by fuki » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:27 pm

Thanks Jundo,

I introduce ppl to dependent arising all the time, my mom, friends etc. No Buddhist terminology included at all, nor much words, just basic pointers how anything taking for granted which are objects of grasping/fixation and thus the suffering (me and mine) they're trying to fix is unfixable, unless they take a look at how everything dependendly arises and what they took for granted as something solid or seperately existing might be only a fabrication, a dream.

But none of the above words are used, nor philosophy or the intellect. It's kind of how koans are born. It is helpful in the way of relatively releasing some of the daily habits of vexations/suffering/neurotics ppl go through which seem to be default in most habitual/conditioned minds. How "far they take it" is up to them. Funny enough some simple pointers (one-liners) seem to be more helpful in the release of clinging then after a decade of seeing psychologists.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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