Ultimate Goal

All things related to beginning Zen Practice. Here is where to exchange information between those that have already started Zen training and those planning to do so.
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loves' the unjust
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Ultimate Goal

Post by loves' the unjust » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:27 pm

What is your ultimate goal?
cooper

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Mason
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Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Mason » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:37 pm

When I open my eyes, the world appears. When I close my eyes, the world disappears.
"The Way needs no cultivation, just do not defile. What is defilement? When with a mind of birth and death one acts in a contrived way, then everything is a defilement. If one wants to know the Way directly: Ordinary Mind is the Way!"

- Record of Ma-tsu

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by loves' the unjust » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:45 pm

You are living vertical.transform into horizontal.
cooper

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Mason
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Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Mason » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:53 pm

In that case, I'm only interested in making myself and others happy. :111:
"The Way needs no cultivation, just do not defile. What is defilement? When with a mind of birth and death one acts in a contrived way, then everything is a defilement. If one wants to know the Way directly: Ordinary Mind is the Way!"

- Record of Ma-tsu

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by loves' the unjust » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:01 pm

I see
cooper

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Mason
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Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Mason » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:27 pm

More important is that place where vertical and horizontal converge. What's that like for you?
"The Way needs no cultivation, just do not defile. What is defilement? When with a mind of birth and death one acts in a contrived way, then everything is a defilement. If one wants to know the Way directly: Ordinary Mind is the Way!"

- Record of Ma-tsu

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by desert_woodworker » Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:44 pm

Enver, this is it.

Just this Mind.

Not a goal, but an Appreciation.

Speaking only personally.

At other times -- and maybe day-to-day -- there are actual goals, though: Getting the car washed, planting next season's tomato seedlings indoors, and putting up the artificial Christmas tree tonight. Maybe others. Granted, these are not "Ultimate" goals, but I don't know what an Ultimate goal IS. Ultimately, ...we are dead. That is not my goal, but it's (an ultimatum that's) been approaching since birth.

Season's greetings, All,

--Joe

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by loves' the unjust » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:03 pm

Mason wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:27 pm
More important is that place where vertical and horizontal converge. What's that like for you?

if it is important for you, it is Me!
cooper

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Mason
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Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Mason » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:41 pm

Well it's only as important as drinking tea. (which, if you've had good tea, you know it's quite important!)
"The Way needs no cultivation, just do not defile. What is defilement? When with a mind of birth and death one acts in a contrived way, then everything is a defilement. If one wants to know the Way directly: Ordinary Mind is the Way!"

- Record of Ma-tsu

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fuki
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Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by fuki » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:49 pm

Mason wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:41 pm
Well it's only as important as drinking tea. (which, if you've had good tea, you know it's quite important!)
Make it a coffee mate and I'm game! :hatsoff:
DSCN6874.JPG
DSCN6874.JPG (5.47 MiB) Viewed 757 times
it's a rarity I drink tea, only with a specific type of cookie.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by loves' the unjust » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:02 am

Mason wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:41 pm
Well it's only as important as drinking tea. (which, if you've had good tea, you know it's quite important!)
I was (playing) good at football when i was a child.
Now i'm getting older.
cooper

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Mason
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Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Mason » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:29 am

You just made my teeth fall out and my hair turn white. Thanks buddy.
"The Way needs no cultivation, just do not defile. What is defilement? When with a mind of birth and death one acts in a contrived way, then everything is a defilement. If one wants to know the Way directly: Ordinary Mind is the Way!"

- Record of Ma-tsu

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Crystal
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Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Crystal » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:40 pm

Enver M. wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:27 pm
What is your ultimate goal?

The best goal is no goal.

https://zenhabits.net/no-goal/


_/|\_

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by loves' the unjust » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:52 pm

hello crystal,

Each time you respond me, your post match well with my current mindset.how you do this?
any kind of mastery you have?
cooper

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Mason
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Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Mason » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:56 pm

Enver M. wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:52 pm
hello crystal,

Each time you respond me, your post match well with my current mindset.how you do this?
any kind of mastery you have?
The universe is your own mind, my friend. It leaps up to meet you.
"The Way needs no cultivation, just do not defile. What is defilement? When with a mind of birth and death one acts in a contrived way, then everything is a defilement. If one wants to know the Way directly: Ordinary Mind is the Way!"

- Record of Ma-tsu

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Crystal
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Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Crystal » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:59 pm

Enver M. wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:52 pm
hello crystal,

Each time you respond me, your post match well with my current mindset.how you do this?
any kind of mastery you have?
Hi Enver,

No, I definately don't have any mastery at all, I just use my intuition a lot of the time!


_/|\_


.

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by loves' the unjust » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:23 pm

Crystal wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:59 pm
Enver M. wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:52 pm
hello crystal,

Each time you respond me, your post match well with my current mindset.how you do this?
any kind of mastery you have?
Hi Enver,

No, I definately don't have any mastery at all, I just use my intuition a lot of the time!


_/|\_


.

_/|\_
cooper

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:21 am

Enver M. wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:27 pm
What is your ultimate goal?
In Mahayana and Vajrayana, many make "the" goal the following:
  • Save all beings;
  • Transform the Three Poisons;
  • Awaken
--Joe

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Mason
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Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Mason » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:46 am

desert_woodworker wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:21 am
Enver M. wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:27 pm
What is your ultimate goal?
In Mahayana and Vajrayana, many make "the" goal the following:
  • Save all beings;
  • Transform the Three Poisons;
  • Awaken
--Joe
Is the order arbitrary?
"The Way needs no cultivation, just do not defile. What is defilement? When with a mind of birth and death one acts in a contrived way, then everything is a defilement. If one wants to know the Way directly: Ordinary Mind is the Way!"

- Record of Ma-tsu

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:54 pm

Hiya, Mason,
Mason wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:46 am
desert_woodworker wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:21 am
Enver M. wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:27 pm
What is your ultimate goal?
In Mahayana and Vajrayana, many make "the" goal the following:
  • Save all beings;
  • Transform the Three Poisons;
  • Awaken
--Joe
Is the order arbitrary?
I myself have always felt that the Great Vows are a package-deal. We recite them together in an order, but our action, behavior, and responses to daily life events and encounters come out and come about as needed. All the Vows and the intentions in them are of a piece. Each vow is much like a different part of the same Elephant, homogeneous, but differentiated (!). And, what's described in the Vows in turn, each, is a natural outcome of the reality of Realization: some bits within it (the process) gradual, some (One... ) sudden!

This is as I see it as a Ch'an- / Zen-Buddhist practitioner. I am not a theorist (but God bless them, one and all).

--Joe

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