Ultimate Goal

All things related to beginning Zen Practice. Here is where to exchange information between those that have already started Zen training and those planning to do so.
User avatar
Enver M.
Posts: 347
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Ankara, turkey

Ultimate Goal

Post by Enver M. » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:27 pm

What is your ultimate goal?
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

User avatar
Mason
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Mason » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:37 pm

When I open my eyes, the world appears. When I close my eyes, the world disappears.

User avatar
Enver M.
Posts: 347
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Ankara, turkey

Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Enver M. » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:45 pm

You are living vertical.transform into horizontal.
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

User avatar
Mason
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Mason » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:53 pm

In that case, I'm only interested in making myself and others happy. :111:

User avatar
Enver M.
Posts: 347
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Ankara, turkey

Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Enver M. » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:01 pm

I see
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

User avatar
Mason
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Mason » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:27 pm

More important is that place where vertical and horizontal converge. What's that like for you?

User avatar
desert_woodworker
Posts: 1212
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:20 am
Location: Southern Arizona desert, USA

Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by desert_woodworker » Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:44 pm

Enver, this is it.

Just this Mind.

Not a goal, but an Appreciation.

Speaking only personally.

At other times -- and maybe day-to-day -- there are actual goals, though: Getting the car washed, planting next season's tomato seedlings indoors, and putting up the artificial Christmas tree tonight. Maybe others. Granted, these are not "Ultimate" goals, but I don't know what an Ultimate goal IS. Ultimately, ...we are dead. That is not my goal, but it's (an ultimatum that's) been approaching since birth.

Season's greetings, All,

--Joe

User avatar
Enver M.
Posts: 347
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Ankara, turkey

Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Enver M. » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:03 pm

Mason wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:27 pm
More important is that place where vertical and horizontal converge. What's that like for you?

if it is important for you, it is Me!
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

User avatar
Mason
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Mason » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:41 pm

Well it's only as important as drinking tea. (which, if you've had good tea, you know it's quite important!)

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 1989
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by fuki » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:49 pm

Mason wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:41 pm
Well it's only as important as drinking tea. (which, if you've had good tea, you know it's quite important!)
Make it a coffee mate and I'm game! :hatsoff:
DSCN6874.JPG
DSCN6874.JPG (5.47 MiB) Viewed 362 times
it's a rarity I drink tea, only with a specific type of cookie.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

User avatar
Enver M.
Posts: 347
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Ankara, turkey

Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Enver M. » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:02 am

Mason wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:41 pm
Well it's only as important as drinking tea. (which, if you've had good tea, you know it's quite important!)
I was (playing) good at football when i was a child.
Now i'm getting older.
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

User avatar
Mason
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Mason » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:29 am

You just made my teeth fall out and my hair turn white. Thanks buddy.

User avatar
Crystal
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:40 pm

Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Crystal » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:40 pm

Enver M. wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:27 pm
What is your ultimate goal?

The best goal is no goal.

https://zenhabits.net/no-goal/


_/|\_

User avatar
Enver M.
Posts: 347
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Ankara, turkey

Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Enver M. » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:52 pm

hello crystal,

Each time you respond me, your post match well with my current mindset.how you do this?
any kind of mastery you have?
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

User avatar
Mason
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Mason » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:56 pm

Enver M. wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:52 pm
hello crystal,

Each time you respond me, your post match well with my current mindset.how you do this?
any kind of mastery you have?
The universe is your own mind, my friend. It leaps up to meet you.

User avatar
Crystal
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:40 pm

Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Crystal » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:59 pm

Enver M. wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:52 pm
hello crystal,

Each time you respond me, your post match well with my current mindset.how you do this?
any kind of mastery you have?
Hi Enver,

No, I definately don't have any mastery at all, I just use my intuition a lot of the time!


_/|\_


.

User avatar
Enver M.
Posts: 347
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Ankara, turkey

Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Enver M. » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:23 pm

Crystal wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:59 pm
Enver M. wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:52 pm
hello crystal,

Each time you respond me, your post match well with my current mindset.how you do this?
any kind of mastery you have?
Hi Enver,

No, I definately don't have any mastery at all, I just use my intuition a lot of the time!


_/|\_


.

_/|\_
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

User avatar
desert_woodworker
Posts: 1212
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:20 am
Location: Southern Arizona desert, USA

Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:21 am

Enver M. wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:27 pm
What is your ultimate goal?
In Mahayana and Vajrayana, many make "the" goal the following:
  • Save all beings;
  • Transform the Three Poisons;
  • Awaken
--Joe

User avatar
Mason
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by Mason » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:46 am

desert_woodworker wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:21 am
Enver M. wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:27 pm
What is your ultimate goal?
In Mahayana and Vajrayana, many make "the" goal the following:
  • Save all beings;
  • Transform the Three Poisons;
  • Awaken
--Joe
Is the order arbitrary?

User avatar
desert_woodworker
Posts: 1212
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:20 am
Location: Southern Arizona desert, USA

Re: Ultimate Goal

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:54 pm

Hiya, Mason,
Mason wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:46 am
desert_woodworker wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:21 am
Enver M. wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:27 pm
What is your ultimate goal?
In Mahayana and Vajrayana, many make "the" goal the following:
  • Save all beings;
  • Transform the Three Poisons;
  • Awaken
--Joe
Is the order arbitrary?
I myself have always felt that the Great Vows are a package-deal. We recite them together in an order, but our action, behavior, and responses to daily life events and encounters come out and come about as needed. All the Vows and the intentions in them are of a piece. Each vow is much like a different part of the same Elephant, homogeneous, but differentiated (!). And, what's described in the Vows in turn, each, is a natural outcome of the reality of Realization: some bits within it (the process) gradual, some (One... ) sudden!

This is as I see it as a Ch'an- / Zen-Buddhist practitioner. I am not a theorist (but God bless them, one and all).

--Joe

Post Reply