Page 1 of 1

meaning or nonsense?

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:58 pm
by Enver M.
Everything is zen because our leader is a zen master.

But there happen to come a question in my mind.
Should we look for a meaning in our life in all aspects that which is unlimited with your skill or the truth is just nonsense?

I think being full independent and having attachment to environment is two different ways.
the first one evoke the thought of nirvana at me.
while the second one is more likely the way of the crow or a meaningful life.

I think again that in Mahakasyapa's zen all is about nonsense.

that is the zen that which is outside of word and letters and requires full independency.

What do you think?

Re: meaning or nonsense?

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:25 pm
by Enver M.
Enlightenment = to (be able to) know what is what
Mahakasyapa = Love
Buddha = unconditional Love
what zen requires = Full independency

If we put the words in its place we know what we are talking about.

Re: meaning or nonsense?

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:08 pm
by desert_woodworker
Enver, maybe it's impossible in your country to visit a Zen Buddhist teacher and Zen Buddhist sangha?, I don't know.

But, this (that) would be a good start in helping to answer your questions.

Even "posture" is best treated in-person, in 3-dimensions, versus in 2-dimensions like these flat words on a page.

There's a lot in this beautiful tradition which can only be conveyed "in-person", face-to-face (in fact, MOST of it. Especially the important part(s) ).

A lot that we could say here would be useless, and could cause confusion, and suffering.

...Except perhaps unless we hang out in the "Lounge" section. ;)

New Year's wishes!,

--Joe

Re: meaning or nonsense?

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:34 pm
by Enver M.
desert_woodworker wrote: ...Except perhaps unless we hang out in the "Lounge" section. ;)
I can come face to face in which every platform you wish, joe.as i've following white method protection. :D

Best,

Re: meaning or nonsense?

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:39 pm
by desert_woodworker
Hiya,
Enver M. wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:34 pm
desert_woodworker wrote: ...Except perhaps unless we hang out in the "Lounge" section. ;)
I can come face to face in which every platform you wish, joe.as i've following white method protection. :D

Best,

"You're a good man, Charlie Brown".

--Joe


C_B.jpg
C_B.jpg (36.22 KiB) Viewed 505 times

Re: meaning or nonsense?

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:53 am
by fuki
Enver M. wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:58 pm
I think again that in Mahakasyapa's zen all is about nonsense.

What do you think?
I wouldn't grant it any attention, both meaning and nonsense 'extuinguished'

:115:

As Joe said, I can play in the lounge perhaps, but I'm handicapped without Larry :D

Re: meaning or nonsense?

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:25 am
by Enver M.
fuki wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:53 am
Enver M. wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:58 pm
I think again that in Mahakasyapa's zen all is about nonsense.

What do you think?
I wouldn't grant it any attention, both meaning and nonsense 'extuinguished'

:115:
I'll answer with your post in another thread:
..." All we can say is that it is close by. It cannot be directly described, but when you have a tacit understanding of its substance, it is there.~Zen teachings of Huang Po"
As Joe said, I can play in the lounge perhaps, but I'm handicapped without Larry :D
:namaste:

Re: meaning or nonsense?

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:02 pm
by fuki
No nonsense there mate,

Got the quotes from this book btw,
Image

Re: meaning or nonsense?

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:48 pm
by Enver M.
fuki wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:02 pm
No nonsense there mate,
If there is no problem for you then there is no problem for me.

Re: meaning or nonsense?

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:47 pm
by fuki
Enver M. wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:48 pm
If there is no problem for you then there is no problem for me.
All so called problems I see as opportunities, so it's all good whether problems are imagined/conceived of or not. :hatsoff:

Re: meaning or nonsense?

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:44 pm
by desert_woodworker
Enver,
Enver M. wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:58 pm
I think again that in Mahakasyapa's zen all is about nonsense.
Well, there's good nonsense and bad nonsense.

Good nonsense is The Wordless-Doctrine, otherwise known as Ch'an or Zen Buddhism. It's nonsense because the sense is not conveyed in words, but usually by actions, and through mutual and intimate understanding. Buddha held up the flower to serve as his Teisho, his Dharma-talk. Mahakasyapa evidently understood (i.e., shared) the Buddha's "state-of-mind" (which is all that the Buddha meant to convey, as, what's to say about it?), and Mahakasyapa smiled. Why not smile? This Mind is wonderful.

As nonsense goes, "This" is really, really, good. This is the best.

--Joe

Re: meaning or nonsense?

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:13 pm
by Enver M.
desert_woodworker wrote:
Well, there's good nonsense and bad nonsense.

Good nonsense is The Wordless-Doctrine, otherwise known as Ch'an or Zen Buddhism. It's nonsense because the sense is not conveyed in words, but usually by actions, and through mutual and intimate understanding. Buddha held up the flower to serve as his Teisho, his Dharma-talk. Mahakasyapa evidently understood (i.e., shared) the Buddha's "state-of-mind" (which is all that the Buddha meant to convey, as, what's to say about it?), and Mahakasyapa smiled. Why not smile?
Exactly.You come very close to the door to what I've mean.I imagine the Mahakasyapa's smile that which is outside of words and letters.that smile makes a 'nonsense' smile sense on me.

how can i explain? if you try to portrait that smile it will happen to be a nonsense smile.it's not hard.

Re: meaning or nonsense?

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:24 pm
by desert_woodworker
Mind you, I'm not saying that this is it. --Joe ;)


Mad_Issue_154_1972.jpg
Mad_Issue_154_1972.jpg (42 KiB) Viewed 359 times

Re: meaning or nonsense?

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:42 pm
by Enver M.
Enver M. wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:13 pm
desert_woodworker wrote:
Well, there's good nonsense and bad nonsense.

Good nonsense is The Wordless-Doctrine, otherwise known as Ch'an or Zen Buddhism. It's nonsense because the sense is not conveyed in words, but usually by actions, and through mutual and intimate understanding. Buddha held up the flower to serve as his Teisho, his Dharma-talk. Mahakasyapa evidently understood (i.e., shared) the Buddha's "state-of-mind" (which is all that the Buddha meant to convey, as, what's to say about it?), and Mahakasyapa smiled. Why not smile?
Exactly.You come very close to the door to what I've mean.I imagine the Mahakasyapa's smile that which is outside of words and letters.that smile makes a 'nonsense' smile sense on me.

how can i explain? if you try to portrait that smile it will happen to be a nonsense smile.it's not hard.
of course, i'm not talking about the meaning behind it.

just the portrait.

Re: meaning or nonsense?

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:17 pm
by desert_woodworker
By the way, from a Chinese source comes this image. --Joe

Mahakashyapa_print_woodblock.JPG
Mahakashyapa_print_woodblock.JPG (48.38 KiB) Viewed 360 times

Re: meaning or nonsense?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:06 am
by Enver M.
Devi asks
Shiva answer:
My sweet heart, meditate on knowing & not knowing, then to be or not to be.Then throw them a side as to become them.

Zen Flesh Zen Bones
by Nyogen Senzaki and Paul Reps
my first book
translation mine


ps.D.T Suzuki books were my first books
in which i (meet) enter zen

Re: meaning or nonsense?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:07 am
by Larry
Enver M. wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:06 am
ps.D.T Suzuki books were my first books
in which i (meet) enter zen
:namaste:

Re: meaning or nonsense?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:25 am
by Enver M.
:namaste: