Trying to live a right life

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narhwal90
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Re: Trying to live a right life

Post by narhwal90 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:53 pm

$300 to tow is entirely probable, and could easily be more, the rapacity of impound lot operators is difficult to overestimate. If she can't get it out that night its easily $50 or more a day storage. Anything less than the tow fee + daily rate gets you nowhere, not even to go get something out of the car.

Its a nasty pinch to be in- sure she should not have done that but now she's stuck with the clock ticking. Even with a ride home the car is still impounded.

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fuki
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Re: Trying to live a right life

Post by fuki » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:11 pm

narhwal90 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:53 pm
$300 to tow is entirely probable, and could easily be more, the rapacity of impound lot operators is difficult to overestimate. If she can't get it out that night its easily $50 or more a day storage. Anything less than the tow fee + daily rate gets you nowhere, not even to go get something out of the car.

Its a nasty pinch to be in- sure she should not have done that but now she's stuck with the clock ticking. Even with a ride home the car is still impounded.
Let's not get lost in (imagined) details, I believe this thread is about the correct function in each situation/moment, it reminds me of an event last year (and with event I'm delibaretly making a difference between what is known as an "moving-mind-experience" and an "event")

I was riding my bicycle in a familiar location between the dunes as I happened to downhill and got to a parking place between two towns, I witnessed another biker on the parking lot and a car with a woman in it who tried to run the guy over. Furiated he banged on the car's window and a whole nasty "conversation" about who's going to kill who (I'll spare us the lenghty details) I was just witnessing it from afar, and suddenly I was moved to go to the situation, adress the man, put my hand on his shoulder and did "my" energy transformative work and only said to him "let's keep breathing friend" he replied "you're right, but she's crazy" I understand friend "just breath and enjoy what's ahead today" he thanked me and cycled away, if I didn't happen to be there things would have become very violent. In that situation I didn't make one volitional decision, actually "I" wasn't even there, neither center nor circumference, that is simply the natural way aka Alive, not existing from an imagined phenomenal centre, I've had the same in situations in the mid of gun and knife fights, though it's not my desire to make a habit to be in those situations and those were long ago lol! But the 'moral' of the story is, in natural function, there is no decision making or "you and me" in the event, that is called an experience I reckon, at least in my word-usage. So no pinch, and no mind.
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fuki
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Re: Trying to live a right life

Post by fuki » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:45 pm

avisitor wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:51 pm
what is a person?
The sense of a person comes into being (a story of "me in time") by identifying the present with the past and projecting it into the future, in reality there are no persons just threads of memory and habit-energy.

See what remains.
<3
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avisitor
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Re: Trying to live a right life

Post by avisitor » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:01 pm

The situation was real.
It happened.
Don't know how to respond in such a situation
Don't know how trying to live a right life, would respond

There was many comments.
Some spoke of motive, blame, manipulation, caring, ...
Body like a rag, mind like a mirror ... that is still ringing in my ear ... lol

There was no definitive action that should have been taken
My thoughts were to spend more time to talk with this person as to see clearly the issue at hand.
Instead, said, I could not help her. And, I stared into her eyes to see what she wanted from me.
Not proud and not happy about my actions.

Thanks everyone who cared to comment

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fuki
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Re: Trying to live a right life

Post by fuki » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:06 pm

avisitor wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:01 pm
And, I stared into her eyes to see what she wanted from me.
Avi, "two things come to mind;"
Zen Space is a free community service run by volunteers to provide an online place to discuss Zen Buddhism and to share our collective knowledge and experience.
Reality alone exists - and that we are. All the rest is only a dream, a dream of the One Mind, which is our mind without the 'our'. Is it so hard to accept? Is it so difficult to assimilate and to live?
~Wei Wu Wei
Thank you so much for sharing your experience!
:bow2:
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narhwal90
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Re: Trying to live a right life

Post by narhwal90 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:08 pm

fuki wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:11 pm
narhwal90 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:53 pm
$300 to tow is entirely probable, and could easily be more, the rapacity of impound lot operators is difficult to overestimate. If she can't get it out that night its easily $50 or more a day storage. Anything less than the tow fee + daily rate gets you nowhere, not even to go get something out of the car.

Its a nasty pinch to be in- sure she should not have done that but now she's stuck with the clock ticking. Even with a ride home the car is still impounded.
Let's not get lost in (imagined) details, I believe this thread is about the correct function in each situation/moment, it reminds me of an event last year (and with event I'm delibaretly making a difference between what is known as an "moving-mind-experience" and an "event")
Obviously I don't know the details. But I have experienced a vehicle impound and about a week of impound fees which amounted to over $900 to recover it. This was in rural Pennsylvania other locales could be lots more. I am only speaking to the immediate need for real cash to get the vehicle out- half the amount will not do anything and impound operators never show mercy. I'm not sure fronting that kind of money is appropriate in any case. Clearly there are many other possibilites.

I had an experience of my own today. At the food pantry we had a wheelchair-bound regular show up 15 mins after we closed- he well knows the schedule, and the general policy is to be firm with the hours. I have learned to be so, because if you let in one latecomer then pretty soon you'll have many. So I closed the door, a few minutes later a couple other volunteers went outside to talk to him, he was in tears at this point, and they put together a bag for him. Previously that morning I was firm with one lady who tried to get me to let her pick a bag for her brother, she is a regular and I was wavering but came down on the side of holding to the policy since she did not produce the usual ID and proof-of-address the pantry requires, and in discussions after we closed it turned out her record shows her brother had died last year... so she was in for the scam. Happily the others in the operation got the 1st guy a bag which was the right choice. The lady got her legit bag and her scam didn't pan out.

Our instructions permit choice in tough-calls such as these, we all get them wrong sometimes; the counter-lady missed 2 scams that came in today; people got double bags because we weren't notified they had gotten "early bags" before the official pantry day and so were not entitled for bags today.

All of us at the counter have to make these choices, in that capacity they are part of the job. When we get them wrong somebody goes home with nothing- either the person in front of us or somebody later who shows up and we don't have any stock left.

I'm not sure what a moving-mind-experience is, but today showed various consequences of policy and the importance of staying on top of one's own mind and not getting sucked into reaction. So I am owning my feelings about blowing it with the wheelchair man. My amends are to be quicker with compassion and more careful about reasoning about policy.

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Spike
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Re: Trying to live a right life

Post by Spike » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:21 pm

narhwal90 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:53 pm
$300 to tow is entirely probable, and could easily be more, the rapacity of impound lot operators is difficult to overestimate. If she can't get it out that night its easily $50 or more a day storage. Anything less than the tow fee + daily rate gets you nowhere, not even to go get something out of the car.

Its a nasty pinch to be in- sure she should not have done that but now she's stuck with the clock ticking. Even with a ride home the car is still impounded.
(My guesstimate is from the show Parking Wars, mostly filmed in Pennsylvania (Philadelphia), where the norm for the initial fee seems to be about $125.)

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fuki
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Re: Trying to live a right life

Post by fuki » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:54 pm

narhwal90 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:08 pm
I'm not sure what a moving-mind-experience is, but today showed various consequences of policy and the importance of staying on top of one's own mind and not getting sucked into reaction. So I am owning my feelings about blowing it with the wheelchair man. My amends are to be quicker with compassion and more careful about reasoning about policy.
Your intentions are all that matter, by the way easy for me to say, I never have to work again as I am "incapacitated by law permanently" Woohoo! doesn't mean I don't work, but never for companies who are in business for a profit, nor do I have to work to earn money, so no policy or rules for me, just the moment "as it is" But I've been in similair situations when working in stores or for companies in the past.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
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avisitor
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Re: Trying to live a right life

Post by avisitor » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:28 am

Have no ability to tell from those who struggle in life and those who choose to scam.
And ultimately, it isn't about other people.

It is about the work I am doing upon myself
It isn't about being right. But, about living right
Finding the wisdom and compassion in myself to act correctly

Guessing there is no one rule to follow
Only a flow of things, events, feelings ...
which dictate the direction of our minds and the actions that follow

So, next question ... is this right thinking??

NOTE: In response to Clyde's Beginner's Space, I was hoping that my thread was not the cause for his Post.
That this thread was about how to deal with aspects of the teachings .. just as a beginner would.
I am sorry if anyone feels that I have not stayed within the guide lines.

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clyde
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Re: Trying to live a right life

Post by clyde » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:20 am

avisitor wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:28 am
NOTE: In response to Clyde's Beginner's Space, I was hoping that my thread was not the cause for his Post.
That this thread was about how to deal with aspects of the teachings .. just as a beginner would.
I am sorry if anyone feels that I have not stayed within the guide lines.
NOTE: Nope. This thread was not the catalyst for my reminder to the members of this sub-forum’s stated purpose. I moved another thread that was.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”

avisitor
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Re: Trying to live a right life

Post by avisitor » Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:58 pm

narhwal90 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:08 pm
I'm not sure what a moving-mind-experience is, but today showed various consequences of policy and the importance of staying on top of one's own mind and not getting sucked into reaction. So I am owning my feelings about blowing it with the wheelchair man. My amends are to be quicker with compassion and more careful about reasoning about policy.
:namaste:

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bukowski
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Re: Trying to live a right life

Post by bukowski » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:30 pm

Hi all.

I don't believe that their is a black and white right or wrong thing to do in any situation. I almost never have all of the information, to make a fully informed choice, so i just have to consider what i can be certain of, and make a decission based upon that.

I try to focus on causing no harm in the first instance. An example would be that i don't give money to people who beg, as i work in substance misuse and i know that the vast majority of people who beg in my area have a substance misuse issue, and i don't want to perpetuate the misery that depndency brings to everyone involved. However i do offer to buy a meal or a drink, and i give money every month to a charity that houses people who are homeless.

I don't always get this right and no one is perfect, least of all me.

Metta bukowski. :namaste:

avisitor
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Re: Trying to live a right life

Post by avisitor » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:22 pm

bukowski wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:30 pm
Hi all.

I don't believe that their is a black and white right or wrong thing to do in any situation. I almost never have all of the information, to make a fully informed choice, so i just have to consider what i can be certain of, and make a decission based upon that.

I try to focus on causing no harm in the first instance. An example would be that i don't give money to people who beg, as i work in substance misuse and i know that the vast majority of people who beg in my area have a substance misuse issue, and i don't want to perpetuate the misery that depndency brings to everyone involved. However i do offer to buy a meal or a drink, and i give money every month to a charity that houses people who are homeless.

I don't always get this right and no one is perfect, least of all me.

Metta bukowski. :namaste:
What was I trying to say?
Oh, that the situations we find ourselves in .. are something which we can use to work on ourselves
For some, they believe that they have worked on themselves well enough
Then someone cuts them off in traffic and the anger and ... it just all comes out

I used this example in my life to ask for others who are working on themselves to give me their opinions
Can not possibly see all things from all views. So, I ask for help.
This isn't about money. But, I thank you for being a good person.
And, I thank everyone for their comments

narhwal90
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Re: Trying to live a right life

Post by narhwal90 » Sat May 25, 2019 10:29 pm

Following up to stay spiritually accountable, we had the monthly pantry today.

The wheelchair guy showed up on time,and he had a pushcart for a 2nd person that he was picking up for, which he somehow maneuvered by hand over any number of city blocks while driving the electric wheelchair. My small amends consisted of getting the pushcart out of his way and into the 2nd pantry room so he could get his cart turned around and over there to pick up some additional items.

We didn't have anyone show up after closing but the last family in had been hurrying to make it. Their folding cart was a mess, so I fixed it and discovered one of the wheels was jammed up with what looked like shredded fabric, but turned out to be a big tangled wad of human hair. I cleaned it all out with a carpet knife and pliers I keep handy, kept expecting to find blood and scalp (<everything> happens in the inner city) but only found dirt. I washed up 3 times as soon has I had their cart in proper order, swept thoroughly and spent the ride home imagining lice crawling over every inch of my body. Getting that disgusting cart straightened up for those folks was the 2nd part of my amends. FFS I hope that was a discarded wig <shudder>

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Spike
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Re: Trying to live a right life

Post by Spike » Sun May 26, 2019 12:00 am

Hard to imagine what amends a goodhearted person like you, based on your report, needs to make.

narhwal90
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Re: Trying to live a right life

Post by narhwal90 » Sun May 26, 2019 1:21 am

Specifically, last month, because I was too rigid interpreting the pantry hours, I refused to let the wheelchair guy in because it was a few minutes late. As detailed previously in this thread, he was outside in tears when some of the other pantry volunteers went out to talk to him- they made him a bag- my choice would have left him to go home with nothing. Today my man got up out of his chair- air bottle, cannula and all and respectfully presented his ID and proof of address; more than many of the able folks do. It was my privilege to put the bags in his cart and move it out of the way for him to turn around his chair.

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lindama
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Re: Trying to live a right life

Post by lindama » Wed May 29, 2019 2:56 am

what Fuki, Spike and Larry said.... except offer what money you are willing.... forget the assessments of motive. a ride home would be fine, if nothing else. or simply a telephone call, or just saying "I'm glad you came in... are the kids waiting, or whatever.

none of us are in a position to know what her karma is.... whether to beg, manipulate or simply to accept an extended hand. we do what we can.

some memorable lessons I have learned:

in the 60's, I was 17, stopped at a stop light in the inner city, we called them slums back them. they still exist, big time. Without warning, a drunken derelect appeared and put his head near my open window of the car. I had no idea that such ppl existed. I was scared, but I answered his question, don't remember what. he didn't ask for money. Somehow, It opened my feelings and I never had fear of such things again.

In the 70's, I was a young career woman on a ski trip by myself going to Vermont. I skidded off the road on a curve into a snow bank. It was a lonely less traveled road, I was hopeless and stuck. Before long, a man stopped to help, he pulled me out saying.... around here, we watch out for each other.

In the 80's, I was an older career woman in California in a questionable neighborhood at a gas station at night.... an obviously drunken man came up asking for money. Without thinking, I gave him $5. I had no interest what he did with it.... not my business.

on rare occastions, back when I was stopped on the street in San Francisco, I would stop and talk with ppl and then give them money. It's not something that I seek or that happens very often except when the occasion arises. there were also times when I smiled and said, no thank you. living out in the country now, on occasion, I've driven ppl home who are lost and confused. It's just that with no separation, there is no fear.

I never thought of trying to live the right life, then or now.

avisitor
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Re: Trying to live a right life

Post by avisitor » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:18 am

lindama wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 2:56 am
It's just that with no separation, there is no fear.

I never thought of trying to live the right life, then or now.
No separation, no fear
How can one fear oneself?

Unfortunately, I still have separation
I don't walk in dangerous neighborhoods and say that I will not fear
There are places in Brooklyn where store owners clean the blood off their sidewalks everyday
It is just a part of doing business in their neighborhood

So, I believe that there is a right way to live
And, I try to do the right things
And be in the right places
Take up my responsibilities and carry them out accordingly

So, for you, it might be right to not have to think about "to live the right life"
But, may be for others, it is what is needed.
Separation or not

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fuki
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Re: Trying to live a right life

Post by fuki » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:27 am

Right, there is a difference between self-contracted fear (irrational fear born from a self-narrative) and the biological "fear" when standing face to face with a tiger, or murderer, or whatever. Fear as a biological reaction arising due to conditions is a natural part of life, the unnatural (dukkha) part is when the moment is over and it becomes a mental anxiety projected unto future imaginative events or people.
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lindama
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Re: Trying to live a right life

Post by lindama » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:39 am

Sorry, I walked the streets of NYC late at night when I was in college.... 42nd St to the Port Authority for the bus back to college from the train station... and I've been to Harlem and stood in line at the Apollo. NYC is a lot safer these days. Fear is not too helpful.... I know how to keep my eyes, ears and senses tuned into my surroundings.... and I know how to project a sure and confident walk to deter ppl who are looking for fearful, powerless ppl. Tuning in like that is all about no separation in my mind.... and with nothing added about fantasy of harm. I'd say it's simply reality. It's just common sense not to walk down a deserted street in an abandoned neighborhood.

I'd say biological fear is debilitating. Extraordinary things can happen when it is surpassed. There is no biological fear at work walking down a dangerous city street.... until the villian appears. and even then. My zen teacher worked the streets of San Francisco in the worst areas as a social worker. Once, on his own time, he was confronted with a mugger with weapon..... to which he responded in a loud, clear voice: "Does your mother know where you are??" .... they ran away.

I also know that driving home on River Rd, Sonoma County, is statistically a dangerous road at night.... too many head on drunk driver cases. I go another road at night. It has nothing to do with fear. It just makes sense to avoid it.
Last edited by lindama on Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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