The Nature of Awareness

Scholarly area. Academic discussion of Zen.
User avatar
fuki
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: The Nature of Awareness

Post by fuki » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:16 pm

Another favourite;
"self-liberation through seeing with naked awareness"

http://www.fodian.net/world/zzgse.html

my all time Buddhistic top 3 along with Hui Hai's "entering the tao of sudden enlightenment" and the "sutra of complete enlightenment"
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen nederland.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

User avatar
Wayfarer
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:42 am
Location: Sydney AU
Contact:

Re: The Nature of Awareness

Post by Wayfarer » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:40 pm

Fuki wrote:There are even mystic christians and others from so many cultures and paths who say the same as Buddhadharma, but ppl are attached to Buddhism so anything under another label gets a caution warning that its not Buddhism.
Totally agree with you. I too have absorbed many insights from different paths. I just thought it might be worth mentioning that Nisargadatta is Advaitin in deference to the Forum we’re on.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: The Nature of Awareness

Post by fuki » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:39 pm

Wayfarer wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:40 pm
Fuki wrote:There are even mystic christians and others from so many cultures and paths who say the same as Buddhadharma, but ppl are attached to Buddhism so anything under another label gets a caution warning that its not Buddhism.
Totally agree with you. I too have absorbed many insights from different paths. I just thought it might be worth mentioning that Nisargadatta is Advaitin in deference to the Forum we’re on.
Ah thanks for the clarity
:namaste:
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen nederland.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

User avatar
[james]
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:19 am

Re: The Nature of Awareness

Post by [james] » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:07 pm

fuki wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:01 pm
Wayfarer wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:50 pm
Bear in mind, that is the teaching of Advaita, which differs from that of Zen. The Buddhist sutras don’t generally say that there is such ‘primordial awareness’ or unconditioned subject, as all states arise ‘dependent on causes and conditions’.
....
I know but James asked about other paths too.
....
Just teachings to guide one to his original nature. I dont care under what section it is shelved in the library.
Thanks for the links fukasetsu. I will read and contemplate them carefully as they point to what “I” wants to know.

User avatar
SunWuKong
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:55 pm
Location: Alexandria Virginia

Re: The Nature of Awareness

Post by SunWuKong » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:22 pm

Awareness is a tool used to cultivating a skill, in training. It’s essential nature is the same as everything else’s which doesn’t have specific meaning outside of practice. LOL since Im almost retired now-
--- Eric H., also know as Sun Wu Kong, "an authentic genuine human being"
Birth is thus
Death is thus
Verse or no verse
What’s the fuss?

User avatar
[james]
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:19 am

Re: The Nature of Awareness

Post by [james] » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:10 pm

bokki wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:58 pm
Awareness is a tool used to cultivating a skill, in training. It’s essential nature is the same as everything else’s which doesn’t have specific meaning outside of practice.
y dont u just shut up ur trap and be carefull as to what u say, get a grip hey dumb 1 slow down
Bokki.. ???
:fencing: :113: :waving:

User avatar
SunWuKong
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:55 pm
Location: Alexandria Virginia

Re: The Nature of Awareness

Post by SunWuKong » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:27 pm

[james] wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:10 pm
bokki wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:58 pm
Awareness is a tool used to cultivating a skill, in training. It’s essential nature is the same as everything else’s which doesn’t have specific meaning outside of practice.
y dont u just shut up ur trap and be carefull as to what u say, get a grip hey dumb 1 slow down
Bokki.. ???
:fencing: :113: :waving:
James it’s okay he’s right
I had the chance to stop at Mind is Buddha Buddha is mind but oh well
--- Eric H., also know as Sun Wu Kong, "an authentic genuine human being"
Birth is thus
Death is thus
Verse or no verse
What’s the fuss?

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: The Nature of Awareness

Post by fuki » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:03 pm

bokki wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:58 pm
Awareness is a tool used to cultivating a skill, in training. It’s essential nature is the same as everything else’s which doesn’t have specific meaning outside of practice.
y dont u just shut up ur trap and be carefull as to what u say, get a grip hey dumb 1 slow down
You angry at yourself again bokki?
please try to control these episodes, when you feel the urge to be unkind to people walk away from the keyboard and just watch it come and go, these are good moments for practise. 8-)
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen nederland.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: The Nature of Awareness

Post by fuki » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:05 pm

SunWuKong wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:22 pm
Awareness is a tool used to cultivating a skill, in training. It’s essential nature is the same as everything else’s which doesn’t have specific meaning outside of practice. LOL since Im almost retired now-
not sure I follow, what do you mean outside of practise.
Awareness permeates everything and everywhere right?
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen nederland.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

User avatar
SunWuKong
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:55 pm
Location: Alexandria Virginia

Re: The Nature of Awareness

Post by SunWuKong » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:13 pm

fuki wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:05 pm
SunWuKong wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:22 pm
Awareness is a tool used to cultivating a skill, in training. It’s essential nature is the same as everything else’s which doesn’t have specific meaning outside of practice. LOL since Im almost retired now-
not sure I follow, what do you mean outside of practise.
Awareness permeates everything and everywhere right?
Sigh - I’m not sure this was a moment of brilliance - what I mean is if you are living on borrowed time preparing to freeze to death in your Dharma cave - and you had your last bundle of chop wood carry water and you decide to light the fire and cook a pot of Pu Erh tea - you Awareness being like firewood becomes all you’ve got left. You still need the spark of Prajna to set the awareness on fire and the glowing heat of samadhi to stave off certain death. Practicing the Dharma isn’t an exercise, it isn’t a drill. Whether sudden or gradual, awareness is being cultivated, it’s not an abstract notion “out there” - so whatever it is outside the context of cooking emergency tea rations, or removing arrows , saving your life, might not be relevant in a life and death scenario, like the one we live in every day but are scarcely aware of - I hope that’s a little more clear, it’s not dismissing the question but putting it in perspective?
--- Eric H., also know as Sun Wu Kong, "an authentic genuine human being"
Birth is thus
Death is thus
Verse or no verse
What’s the fuss?

User avatar
SunWuKong
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:55 pm
Location: Alexandria Virginia

Re: The Nature of Awareness

Post by SunWuKong » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:32 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlL6Gov4l1s

“stop calling me a bad monkey” LOL
--- Eric H., also know as Sun Wu Kong, "an authentic genuine human being"
Birth is thus
Death is thus
Verse or no verse
What’s the fuss?

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: The Nature of Awareness

Post by fuki » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:23 am

SunWuKong wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:13 pm
I hope that’s a little more clear, it’s not dismissing the question but putting it in perspective?
Clear as an ice-cube, and sorry to be the cause of your sighing. :D
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen nederland.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

User avatar
SunWuKong
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:55 pm
Location: Alexandria Virginia

Re: The Nature of Awareness

Post by SunWuKong » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:31 pm

fuki wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:23 am
SunWuKong wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:13 pm
I hope that’s a little more clear, it’s not dismissing the question but putting it in perspective?
Clear as an ice-cube, and sorry to be the cause of your sighing. :D
No, it’s just that I clearly fumbled the first post, so I put some effort into helping the rabbit out of the hat. Later I realized that the revision was emotionally charged in a way i wasn’t prepared for. I don’t blame Bokki for objecting either it caused me to focus and pay attention. I’m alternating between peaceful contentment and inner turbulence, so there was a bit of Bad Monkey in my first attempt.

So let me ask: if you can’t have samsara without sunyata, and vice versus, how can you have attention without that which attention pays attention to?
--- Eric H., also know as Sun Wu Kong, "an authentic genuine human being"
Birth is thus
Death is thus
Verse or no verse
What’s the fuss?

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: The Nature of Awareness

Post by fuki » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:32 pm

SunWuKong wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:31 pm
So let me ask: if you can’t have samsara without sunyata, and vice versus, how can you have attention without that which attention pays attention to?
Whatever gets my intention turns into non attention, what is then left is awareness only.

Not clear what you mean though but when I stop trying to figure it out I return to not knowing and rest naturally.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen nederland.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

User avatar
[james]
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:19 am

Re: The Nature of Awareness

Post by [james] » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:10 pm

fuki wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:32 pm
SunWuKong wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:31 pm
So let me ask: if you can’t have samsara without sunyata, and vice versus, how can you have attention without that which attention pays attention to?
Whatever gets my intention turns into non attention, what is then left is awareness only.

Not clear what you mean though but when I stop trying to figure it out I return to not knowing and rest naturally.
Awareness, consciousness, mindfulness, attention ... I think of the last two as needing an “I” looking outward, of consciousness as being a quality of “I” attending to itself, and awareness ... I don’t know yet. Perhaps that’s as fuki says. I’m not yet comfortable with awareness as simply not knowing. Perhaps there is something of a surrending to it that “I” needs to be comfortable with.

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: The Nature of Awareness

Post by fuki » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:41 pm

Awareness is beyond knowing and not knowing, knowing happens spontaneously one either knows something or not, like how you know the million dollars is in suitcase nr 8 or you know your loved one 1000 miles away is in pain or died in a plane crash. If someone asks how that can be all one can say I don't know, so I feel very comfortable with the unknown for the simple fact that no view I hold can be true. But whatever is known spontaneously without inrellectual effort is simply known, but that too is temporary so I lost the desire, dropped the ball and chain of wanting/needing to know. If it happens knowing occurs fine, if it doesnt occur also fine. :)
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen nederland.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

User avatar
SunWuKong
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:55 pm
Location: Alexandria Virginia

Re: The Nature of Awareness

Post by SunWuKong » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:06 pm

The heart is the hub of all spiritual places. Go there and roam. - Nityananda
--- Eric H., also know as Sun Wu Kong, "an authentic genuine human being"
Birth is thus
Death is thus
Verse or no verse
What’s the fuss?

User avatar
SunWuKong
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:55 pm
Location: Alexandria Virginia

Re: The Nature of Awareness

Post by SunWuKong » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:29 pm

“We are magical animals that roam” - Roam
--- Eric H., also know as Sun Wu Kong, "an authentic genuine human being"
Birth is thus
Death is thus
Verse or no verse
What’s the fuss?

User avatar
bokki
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:31 pm

Re: The Nature of Awareness

Post by bokki » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:32 pm

im not able to talk now. i want to apologise 2 SunWu...
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson

User avatar
SunWuKong
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:55 pm
Location: Alexandria Virginia

Re: The Nature of Awareness

Post by SunWuKong » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:20 pm

bokki wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:32 pm
im not able to talk now. i want to apologise 2 SunWu...
Bokki I accept your apology- you were being authentic and genuine - and don’t ask me how but I know your heart. In some of these forums I get trashed and I do walk away feeling bad. But I never doubted you for a moment. So whatever you said, I never took any offense at and I incurred no harm.

I want to write this poem “Beyond the Mountains Are More Mountains” and I want it to be my best effort ever. I thought it up while thinking about mr. Bokki. I hope I can figure it out.

Gassho
--- Eric H., also know as Sun Wu Kong, "an authentic genuine human being"
Birth is thus
Death is thus
Verse or no verse
What’s the fuss?

Post Reply