Zen Tigers and Pussy

Discussion of Zen history (including, but not limited to, Chinese Chan and Japanese Zen)
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lobster
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Zen Tigers and Pussy

Post by lobster » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:07 am

Image

Wot no gals?
http://www.wisdompubs.org/book/daughter ... selections

Welcome to the Koran Koan ... (for another time) ... meanwhile Tiger Pussy Koan
http://sweepingzen.com/zen-women-and-the-pussy-koan/

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bokki
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Re: Zen Tigers and Pussy

Post by bokki » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:26 am

dang! that is 1.. well ..a best example.. a painting.. lol..ART 2 d bomb!wow
a download 4 sure, will b researching this...
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10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
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Dan74
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Re: Zen Tigers and Pussy

Post by Dan74 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:14 am

Does anyone have any source texts for these stories? I confess a scepticism that they have been fitted into the mould of liberal American values but open to be proven wrong.
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lindama
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Re: Zen Tigers and Pussy

Post by lindama » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:22 pm

Miaozong was a lion.... :waving:

https://www.lionsroar.com/an-unlikely-dharma-warrior/

From the Pussy, all life emerges: All people, all their accomplishments, all their inventions, and all the food that people produce. This is a profound spiritual and worldly gate through which ALL enter. (Grace Shireson
:evil: SOOOO, the proper name is Vagina.... a profound spiritual and worldly gate through which all enter. The article is a bowl of spaghetti... Miaozong deserves more than to be used as a pawn in this article. (see above)

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Dan74
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Re: Zen Tigers and Pussy

Post by Dan74 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:35 pm

It's odd that Prof Levering doesn't even mention this encounter that Grace Shireson describes.
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lindama
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Re: Zen Tigers and Pussy

Post by lindama » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:37 pm

not odd to me... it's not notable.... anymore than Grace's political comments are notable.

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lindama
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Re: Zen Tigers and Pussy

Post by lindama » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:55 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:14 am
Does anyone have any source texts for these stories? I confess a scepticism that they have been fitted into the mould of liberal American values but open to be proven wrong.
Dan, are you suggesting that throwning herself on the floor buck naked is part of the mold of liberal amerikan values? :wool:

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Great Sage EofH
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Re: Zen Tigers and Pussy

Post by Great Sage EofH » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:32 pm

Interesting because in Qi Gong it’s difficult for men to locate the lower Dan tien, for women it’s precise - the womb
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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Dan74
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Re: Zen Tigers and Pussy

Post by Dan74 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:27 pm

lindama wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:55 pm
Dan74 wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:14 am
Does anyone have any source texts for these stories? I confess a scepticism that they have been fitted into the mould of liberal American values but open to be proven wrong.
Dan, are you suggesting that throwning herself on the floor buck naked is part of the mold of liberal amerikan values? :wool:
To me it sounds along the lines of what a liberal feminist Anglophone Zennie would imagine, yes. But like I said, I am prepared to eat my provherbial hat. ('s happened before - they are nutritious!)

But I can't believe Grace Shireson just made these stories up, but there may be a nuance, an angle I am missing.
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jundocohen
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Re: Zen Tigers and Pussy

Post by jundocohen » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:20 am

Dan74 wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:27 pm
lindama wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:55 pm
Dan74 wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:14 am
Does anyone have any source texts for these stories? I confess a scepticism that they have been fitted into the mould of liberal American values but open to be proven wrong.
Dan, are you suggesting that throwning herself on the floor buck naked is part of the mold of liberal amerikan values? :wool:
To me it sounds along the lines of what a liberal feminist Anglophone Zennie would imagine, yes. But like I said, I am prepared to eat my provherbial hat. ('s happened before - they are nutritious!)

But I can't believe Grace Shireson just made these stories up, but there may be a nuance, an angle I am missing.
If you mean the source for stories such as Miaozong naked, Bernard Faure has this ...
Before Wuzhuo had become a nun, Dahui lodged her in her abbot’s quarters.
The Head Monk Wan’an always made disapproving noises. Dahui said to him:
“Even though she is a woman, she has strengths.” Wan’an still did not approve.
Dahui then insisted that he should interview her. Wan’an reluctantly sent a message
that he would go.
[When Wan’an came], Wuzhuo said, “Will you make it a Dharma interview
or a worldly interview?”
The Head Monk replied: “A Dharma interview.”
Wuzhuo said: “Then let your attendants depart.” [Then she called to him,]
“Please come in.”
When he came past the curtain he saw Wuzhuo lying face upwards on the
bed without anything on at all. He pointed at her and said, “What kind of place
is this?”
Wuzhuo replied: “All the Buddhas of the three worlds and the six patriarchs
and all the great monks everywhere—they all come out from within this.”
Wan’an said: “And would you let me enter, or not?”
Wuzhuo replied: “It allows horses to cross, it does not allow asses to cross.”
Wan’an said nothing, and Wuzhuo declared: “The interview with the Senior
Monk is ended.” She then turned over and faced the inside.
Wan’an became embarrassed and left.
Dahui said, “It is certainly not the case that the old beast does not have any
insight.” Wan’an was ashamed.110
__________________

110. Wujia zhengzong zan, in ZZ 2b, 8: 455a–b, trans. Levering 1997: 152–
53. Wuzhuo’s repartee echoes a dialogue between Zhaozhou and a monk: “What
is Zhaozhou’s stone bridge?”—“It transports asses across, it transports horses
across.” Wuzhuo’s ko¯ an was well known in Japan, and was used, for instance,
by Sho¯taku, a nun teacher of the famous convent To¯keiji. See Sho¯nan katto¯roku
(1545), trans. Trevor Legget, The Warrior Koans, 106–7 (I am indebted to Miriam
Levering for these references).

Miriam Levering. 1997. “Stories of Enlightened Women in Ch’an and the Chinese Buddhist
Female Bodhisattva/Goddess Tradition.” In Karen L. King, ed., Women and
Goddess Traditions in Antiquity and Today, 137–76. Minneapolis: Fortress
Press.

https://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/FaurePower.pdf
Teacher at Treeleaf Zendo, a Soto Zen Sangha, an online practice place for folks who cannot commute to a Zen Center due to health, living in remote areas, work or family needs. The focus is Shikantaza 'Just Sitting' Zazen http://www.treeleaf.org

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lindama
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Re: Zen Tigers and Pussy

Post by lindama » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:48 am

no, I mean why Dan is conflating the story with so-called feminist amerikan liberal values.

no prob with the story

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guo gu
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Re: Zen Tigers and Pussy

Post by guo gu » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:50 am

wearing pussy hats to change the world?... taunting miaozong as an emblem to advance one's own discrimination... pitiable!
miaozong would turn over her grave.
why reify pussies and penises?
this case has nothing to do with courage or resistance.
pitiable indeed!

myopic vision
fixated notions
pussies and penises
grave delusion!

how is myoan different than wanan?

guo gu

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lindama
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Re: Zen Tigers and Pussy

Post by lindama » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:53 am

:namaste:

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jundocohen
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Re: Zen Tigers and Pussy

Post by jundocohen » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:20 am

guo gu wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:50 am
wearing pussy hats to change the world?... taunting miaozong as an emblem to advance one's own discrimination... pitiable!
miaozong would turn over her grave.
why reify pussies and penises?
this case has nothing to do with courage or resistance.
pitiable indeed!

myopic vision
fixated notions
pussies and penises
grave delusion!

how is myoan different than wanan?

guo gu
Saying "pitiable" and "no difference" is itself pitiable discrimination. It is the Timeless "Time's Up" Koan.

Gassho, J
Teacher at Treeleaf Zendo, a Soto Zen Sangha, an online practice place for folks who cannot commute to a Zen Center due to health, living in remote areas, work or family needs. The focus is Shikantaza 'Just Sitting' Zazen http://www.treeleaf.org

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michaeljc
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Re: Zen Tigers and Pussy

Post by michaeljc » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:32 am

Its sad to see how some poor souls feel the need to grab attention through being controversial or confrontational

The wise understatement is far my elegant and noble

No need for niggle - ever

M

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jundocohen
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Re: Zen Tigers and Pussy

Post by jundocohen » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:05 am

michaeljc wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:32 am
Its sad to see how some poor souls feel the need to grab attention through being controversial or confrontational

The wise understatement is far my elegant and noble

No need for niggle - ever

M
Hmm. I wonder if there is a time to speak softly, and a time to speak loudly and be a bit "confrontational." Such is the history of civil protest and social reform.

The Vietnamese monks and Tibetans who light themselves afire, the monks in Burma protesting through the streets. Women should not be faulted for speaking up about sexual harassment any more than African-Americans can be faulted for sitting at lunch counters and at the front of the bus.

Gassho, J

Image
Teacher at Treeleaf Zendo, a Soto Zen Sangha, an online practice place for folks who cannot commute to a Zen Center due to health, living in remote areas, work or family needs. The focus is Shikantaza 'Just Sitting' Zazen http://www.treeleaf.org

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bokki
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Re: Zen Tigers and Pussy

Post by bokki » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:27 am

a bit off topic, but, lobster, would u b so kind as 2 post a link to the pic of d tiger in ur op>??
thnx.
holy cod..lol.. u just always break me up, but me a simpleton, sometimes i dont understand
all of ur jokes, tho id luv 2.

big heya for u.

b
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson

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Nothing
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Re: Zen Tigers and Pussy

Post by Nothing » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:40 am

The article in the OP is like a bad cocktail of watered down Zen Buddhism, female chauvinism and propagation of neo-liberal politics. ;)

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jundocohen
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Re: Zen Tigers and Pussy

Post by jundocohen » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:50 am

By the way, there may be a chance that some of our "not in the USA" friends do not know what this "Pussy Hat" "#MeToo" "Time's Up" may be about ...

https://www.pussyhatproject.com/our-story/

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity- ... p-12116545

Now, although Buddhist teachers have frequently paid lip service to "no men no women in the Dharma," the fact is that Buddhists in general, and Zen Buddhists in particular, have been sexist through the centuries. This is perhaps the primary reason that there is not a single female Ancestor in the traditional list of Zen Ancestors, leading Grace Schireson and others to research and develop a list of Female Ancestors, now chanted at very many Zen Sangha in the West ...

https://www.lionsroar.com/chanting-name ... forgotten/

Of course, we need to be careful about criticizing, from modern 21st Century Western standards, Buddhists who lived in traditional, class-based, agricultural monarchies as in old Asia. However, the fact is that Buddhist women have always taken a back seat (quite literally) to the men. They were (and are, in places like Thailand and Tibet) still denied basic opportunities to Ordain and be Trained equally with men.

http://www.dw.com/en/thailands-nuns-fig ... a-17260110

In Zen too until very very recently ...

https://nirc.nanzan-u.ac.jp/nfile/1854

Whatever the reasons for Buddhists doing so in their traditional beliefs, change to afford equal rights to women in Buddhism is a good thing. With the sex scandals by purported Zen Priests like Eido Shimana and Joshu Sasaki, it was shown that sexual harassment and assault could make its way even into the Dokusan room.

For more on this topic, folks should be familiar the the writings of the late, great Buddhist historian Rita Gross ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_Gross

Highly recommended is her "Buddhism After Patriarchy: A Feminist History, Analysis, and Reconstruction of Buddhism; Albany, NY: State University of New York Press, 1993"

Gassho, J
Teacher at Treeleaf Zendo, a Soto Zen Sangha, an online practice place for folks who cannot commute to a Zen Center due to health, living in remote areas, work or family needs. The focus is Shikantaza 'Just Sitting' Zazen http://www.treeleaf.org

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Dan74
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Re: Zen Tigers and Pussy

Post by Dan74 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:07 am

I'm all for sincere and appropriate action to address injustices. It's hacking Zen teachings to fit these ends that I find questionable.
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