John Tarrant Roshi

Find out who's who in Zen.
Post Reply
User avatar
desert_woodworker
Posts: 1514
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:20 am
Location: Southern Arizona desert, USA

John Tarrant Roshi

Post by desert_woodworker » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:41 pm

Enver M. wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:40 pm
I had heard about him.I'm sure he is definetely and inteligently a qualified master.Especially if you commend.But I'm on the side to look after my own parents for now.As they are very old, tired and ill.In this way i'm hoping to come some several progress also.This may also prevent from waste of years.I had said before the accessible teacher is the best.And you are the closest one having time with me recently.

Thank you friend.
God bless you, Enver. I hope your parents will have the best of attention and care, through you. You are a very good Son.

Today is my own parents' 83rd wedding anniversary. Had they lived, well, they'd be "pretty old" by now. We lost them both 40 years ago.

Regarding John Tarrant Roshi, I came to know him pretty well during about 14 months here when he substituted for our sangha teacher when our sangha teacher was ill. We sat numerous sesshin (7-day intensive Zen meditation retreats) here in that year, and a number of us came to know him and his co-teacher at the time, Joan Sutherland Roshi, who was made a teacher by John. Some even adopted John and Joan as their teacher, and took Jukai with them.

John Tarrant broke with the Diamond Sangha with which he was originally affiliated (being a Dharma heir of Robert Aitken Roshi himself since 1988) and went "independent" in 2000-something, forming and founding a new outfit called "California Zen Institute".

Ouch. All this is far off-topic of Mason's thread, here. Apologies for our straying. We belong in Reform School (I myself could probably get a full Scholarship, to attend).

--Joe

Caodemarte
Posts: 485
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:02 pm

Re: Koans that you have made

Post by Caodemarte » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:47 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:41 pm
...John Tarrant broke with the Diamond Sangha with which he was originally affiliated (being a Dharma heir of Robert Aitken Roshi himself since 1988) and went "independent" in 2000-something, forming and founding a new outfit called "California Zen Institute"...
It may be more accurate to say that Robert Aitken requested Tarrant to sever ties in lieu of the Diamond Sangha publicly severing ties with Tarrant over differences in what or how Tarrant was teaching (clearly not in the Diamond Sangha or traditional Zen way) and Tarrant’s relationship with students. Wether or not Tarrant could be considered a Aitken dharma heir after that is a question for Buddhist ecclesiastical lawyers!

User avatar
desert_woodworker
Posts: 1514
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:20 am
Location: Southern Arizona desert, USA

Re: Koans that you have made

Post by desert_woodworker » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:12 am

Cao.,

Right.

We were the 1st Affiliate sangha in the history of the Diamond Sangha (DS), of the now more than 22 affiliates, and we learned "all about it".

Our DS teacher of 20 years standing/sitting also sat us all down and shared the doings and decisions and documents pertinent to the matter, pronouncements from the Diamond Sangha Teacher's Circle Meeting which had been held at our town (and communiques from Hawai'i), with the 20 or so teachers on board at the time (there are more of them now, although our teacher has passed away).

It was clear that Tarrant Roshi had no choice but to fold, and to unfold somewhere, somehow, else. I like and respect him a lot, by the way, and was his Jisha on several sesshin in that time when Hawk Roshi was indisposed (some quite famous sesshin, here; one held under a party-tent in 105 degree weather, under the bright Comet Hale-Bopp in evenings, in a member's back yard; the zendo floor was green lawn grass [brown, by the time we'd finished treading it 7 days later]).

Times gone by. I tell you... .

Make no mistake about the Father-Son relationship, though. Just as Robert Aitken himself, in his own break with the Sanbo Kyodan.

:namaste:

--Joe

User avatar
lindama
Posts: 408
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:20 pm
Location: Forestville, CA

Re: Koans that you have made

Post by lindama » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:43 am

Caodemarte wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:47 pm
desert_woodworker wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:41 pm
...John Tarrant broke with the Diamond Sangha with which he was originally affiliated (being a Dharma heir of Robert Aitken Roshi himself since 1988) and went "independent" in 2000-something, forming and founding a new outfit called "California Zen Institute"...
It may be more accurate to say that Robert Aitken requested Tarrant to sever ties in lieu of the Diamond Sangha publicly severing ties with Tarrant over differences in what or how Tarrant was teaching (clearly not in the Diamond Sangha or traditional Zen way) and Tarrant’s relationship with students. Wether or not Tarrant could be considered a Aitken dharma heir after that is a question for Buddhist ecclesiastical lawyers!
Times gone by. I spent ten years with John Tarrant. If I learned one thing, there is nothing to hold on to. I've seen it all. There is much more than the gossip you allude to above. yes, there was intensity and gossip. there was also more. I am not presenting defense as much as a debunking of assumptions about that. All sides suffered. The great thing was, there was no denial or suppression, things came and they went.... and then were reborn over and over. That was part of John's gift.

to correct, John split off to the California Diamond Sangha and later renamed to the Pacific Zen Institute. Whatever maybe appear to be faults, John had the integrity to be himself. It is why I always trusted him to be himself. He was not built to carry forward a culture that is not ours. He is built to bring forward what zen is in everyday life. Something that can be felt and tasted. In that way Joe, John taught that koans are a part of our life.... while he is a brilliant koan teacher, he did not limit koans to working with a teacher .... a koan is also something that goes with us, walking in life. In a way, god bless him, John taught us to walk with wisdom and let koans teach us. In that fierce fire, we come to walk with ease in life. don't underestimate that.

I have no interest in so-called "Buddhist ecclesiastical lawyers". Rest assured, the lawyers have no idea what a Buddhist heart is. I hold to my sovereignty and heart on who I connect with. Rest assured, I can take care of myself to the end... and it did come. blessed be, no regrets. deep gratitude the walk together.

blessings,
linda

ps..... why are the member names not showing?
Last edited by lindama on Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
lindama
Posts: 408
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:20 pm
Location: Forestville, CA

Re: Koans that you have made

Post by lindama » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:17 am

desert_woodworker wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:12 am
Cao.,

Right.

We were the 1st Affiliate sangha in the history of the Diamond Sangha (DS), of the now more than 22 affiliates, and we learned "all about it".

Our DS teacher of 20 years standing/sitting also sat us all down and shared the doings and decisions and documents pertinent to the matter, pronouncements from the Diamond Sangha Teacher's Circle Meeting which had been held at our town (and communiques from Hawai'i), with the 20 or so teachers on board at the time (there are more of them now, although our teacher has passed away).

It was clear that Tarrant Roshi had no choice but to fold, and to unfold somewhere, somehow, else. I like and respect him a lot, by the way, and was his Jisha on several sesshin in that time when Hawk Roshi was indisposed (some quite famous sesshin, here; one held under a party-tent in 105 degree weather, under the bright Comet Hale-Bopp in evenings, in a member's back yard; the zendo floor was green lawn grass [brown, by the time we'd finished treading it 7 days later]).

Times gone by. I tell you... .

Make no mistake about the Father-Son relationship, though. Just as Robert Aitken himself, in his own break with the Sanbo Kyodan.

:namaste:

--Joe
so, exactly what were the doings and decisions? Hearts were broken on both sides.... for what? as time goes by. ofc, it was what it was, just like our political dilemas today with no one talking to the other. I saw it all. so what, each snowflake falls in the right place.

Friend
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:22 am

Re: John Tarrant Roshi

Post by Friend » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:17 pm

Aitken Roshi's actual letter removing John Tarrant for misconduct is on page 4 here. Memories are short and selective.

http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F% ... OU6Tiw6V_Q

User avatar
lindama
Posts: 408
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:20 pm
Location: Forestville, CA

Re: John Tarrant Roshi

Post by lindama » Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:30 pm

you know what, I'd like this removed. this whole thing... memories are not selective. gossip is.

enough

User avatar
loves' the unjust
Posts: 728
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Ankara, turkey

Re: Koans that you have made

Post by loves' the unjust » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:43 pm

lindama wrote: so, exactly what were the doings and decisions? Hearts were broken on both sides.... for what? as time goes by. ofc, it was what it was, just like our political dilemas today with no one talking to the other. I saw it all. so what, each snowflake falls in the right place.
linda, liked this answer.somewhat touch my life.
cooper

User avatar
desert_woodworker
Posts: 1514
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:20 am
Location: Southern Arizona desert, USA

Re: John Tarrant Roshi

Post by desert_woodworker » Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:19 pm

Hi, Linda, glad you're here and have chimed-in too. I was hoping you might.

I too would not mind seeing this entire split-off thread expunged. Sponged.... . Please?? ;)

Now that we've read it -- those who have -- no need to keep it.

Aitken Roshi had some good teisho on "Gossip". I'm not one for gossip, and don't want to have a part in adding to it, nor in having it added to my impromptu post to Enver.

Thanks, All, for considering that gossip is not a wholesome part of Buddhist practice, neither Zen- Buddhist nor other sects' practice.

"Idle Talk", don't you know... . It's icky.

:namaste:

--Joe

User avatar
lindama
Posts: 408
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:20 pm
Location: Forestville, CA

Re: John Tarrant Roshi

Post by lindama » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:51 pm

Putting my finger on the scale when there really isn't a crisis, so to speak.... something to contemplate in all the universe:

"it would be a pity to waste a good crisis", John Tarrant in Lion's Roar, March 2018:

Zen Student: “When times of great difficulty visit us, how should we greet them?”
Teacher: “Welcome.”

https://www.lionsroar.com/it-would-be-a ... od-crisis/

User avatar
[james]
Posts: 353
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:19 am
Location: Are we there yet?

Re: John Tarrant Roshi

Post by [james] » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:59 pm

From your link ...
John Tarrant wrote: The beginning of being fine is noticing how things really are, and in my case this comes from having a practice, from meditating, from noticing life without blame or outrage, or fear, and if there is blame, outrage, or fear, noticing that without blame, outrage, or fear. With such noticing, compassion enters.
... which seems to me apropos to the recent controversial threads.

User avatar
desert_woodworker
Posts: 1514
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:20 am
Location: Southern Arizona desert, USA

Re: John Tarrant Roshi

Post by desert_woodworker » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:23 pm

Oh, hiya,

It's not the threads that are or have been controversial. It's whether or not the prejudices and gossip are.

I'd say the prejudices and gossip are not only controversial, but uncalled for. Any issues have already long ago been dealt with.

Don't let's let third-party ignoramuses and merely-opinionated parties hold sway, and post trash-talk willy-nilly for lack of anything better to say.

This is important, more and more so, in this digital day (they say).

Dunno, I still have 10 original digital fingers, despite all my woodworking ( touch / knock wood... ).

(mostly, I eschew use of power-tools, which just let you make mistakes 100 times faster than manually).

Friendly greetings!, All,

talk in person to those who you'd like to criticize, don't smear this area with unpleasant ointment,

--Joe

p.s. Please delete this artificial thread. Never intended to be a thread. Delete it now. Tnx. -J.

Post Reply