What's wrong with.... (the "dharmavegan" topic)

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fuki
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Re: What's wrong with.... (the "dharmavegan" topic)

Post by fuki » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:12 pm

I was part of that group and other vegan-buddhism groups on fb, I left because 90% of the inhabitants/posts are the same in manifesting some group-identity or polarizing self-butt sniffing stuff only enhancing one's identity as a "vegan buddhist" instead of seeing it as a function. You know when you make it into a thing, just like an imagined buddhist identity, or a democrat or a republican and all that counterproductive opposition stuff. So activities are to enhance ones own identity and setting it up against buddhist who are not vegan, and like any identity it requires constant affirmation like every false identity, its hard to find some inspiration on facebook, same applies ro my non-buddhist vegan friends. What they do for the "animals" is a noble cause but what isn't noble is how it becomes an identity and how they create an "enemy"

I was disappointed, but I find that more and more the case with any group behaviour or when causes and conditions locally known as "buddhism" or "veganism" or "whateverism" loses its original function and becomes a polarizing play and being hijacked by an identity fetish

(ps I was only there a few weeks and after writing stuff like this a few ppl had their "buddhism/wisdom thingy" functioning but most places get dominated by emotional reactivity of personal frustrations about the perceived objective world, so its hard to inspire ppl and behave congruently as an universal service instead of polarizing the 'matter')

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Re: What's wrong with.... (the "dharmavegan" topic)

Post by fuki » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:21 pm

Larry wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:37 am

"My body is my temple"
No it's just a bunch of blood, pus, sperm and always full of feces and composed of other "thingies" falsy creating the idea of "my body" instead of "a body" :lol:

When you use a hammer it's just a hammer, when done with driving a nail in the wall you put it in the toolbox or in my case just leave it lying around somewhere, its never my hammer whether it's doing a job or not. Ofcourse the job "must" be universal and beneficiary as it is the original function of the 'individual' tool. But there's room for entertainment and nonzense ofcourse, if only to mess with the model, temple my ass :lol:

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Re: What's wrong with.... (the "dharmavegan" topic)

Post by p22 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:24 pm

I do make some effort not to butt sniff, to not be in group agreement, but there are times I find myself joining- And then feel bad for being a participant- I try my best, sometimes, to just understand rather than seek being in agreement-

Doesn't always work .. :lol:

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Re: What's wrong with.... (the "dharmavegan" topic)

Post by fuki » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:43 pm

p22 wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:24 pm
I do make some effort not to butt sniff, to not be in group agreement, but there are times I find myself joining- And then feel bad for being a participant- I try my best, sometimes, to just understand rather than seek being in agreement-

Doesn't always work .. :lol:
:lol:

It's fascinating to observe, I always say I don't do agreeing and disagreeing because in most cases ppl dont communicate as you say to understand but simply to look for confirmation of opinions or 'positions' So agreeing and disagreeing then become primotive opposites or polarizing thingies. I often use Ramanas words when he says "angle of vision" One can understand someones angle of vision and then share your angle of vision, vision ofcourse is never in opposition just like differences never are (tell politics that eh) there might be opposites but there's no opposition so whatever perceived differences are then just sharing angles of vision instead of a "vs" mode which only usually has two directions, but I can agree with someone in conventional speech it's just that agreeing indeed does not become another identity or fixed position, more proof that no one has a view or a position, since you require something else to form a view to begin with. And still we imagine to have a view or position like it has any own being or self-nature :hide:

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Re: What's wrong with.... (the "dharmavegan" topic)

Post by fuki » Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:33 pm

p22 wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:24 pm
Doesn't always work .. :lol:
ps it's not always as easy as I make it sound, when talking to ppl one ofcourse "hopes" or is "happy" if someone can "change" or be open to a different perspective/angle and especially if it brings about some actual change. But its not so much about the view ofcourse yet often the view tends to become a thingy instead of a momentary arising due to conditions, I mean when the view gets solidified or "internalized" and becomes something "fixed" like an internal narrative.
Like a broken record.... :hide:

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Re: What's wrong with.... (the "dharmavegan" topic)

Post by fuki » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:59 pm

BURLINGTON—Animal Justice is condemning the tragic death of Regan Russell, a compassionate animal advocate who was killed today outside of the Fearmans Pork Inc. slaughterhouse in Burlington, Ontario in Canada. She was violently run over by a transport truck as she attended a peaceful vigil outside of the facility.
https://www.animaljustice.ca/media-rele ... 0.facebook
download.jpeg-1.jpg
Bodhisattva Regan Russell
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Re: What's wrong with.... (the "dharmavegan" topic)

Post by p22 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:18 am

https://vegworldmag.com/animal-activist ... urlington/

Maybe everything is wrong with the topic- Maybe what's wrong with it can't be talked about but seen- And once seen (the mirror held up) denial occurs and manifests as more violence because wants are deeply seated in people- People who don't want to be thought of as wrong-

So, eat meat or don't- But it's a mistake not to share awareness of what happens to animals- We are animals ourselves- And the article above provides examples of what happens to us-

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Re: What's wrong with.... (the "dharmavegan" topic)

Post by fuki » Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:27 am

p22 wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:18 am
https://vegworldmag.com/animal-activist ... urlington/

Maybe everything is wrong with the topic- Maybe what's wrong with it can't be talked about but seen- And once seen (the mirror held up) denial occurs and manifests as more violence because wants are deeply seated in people- People who don't want to be thought of as wrong-
Yes but it's kind of childish isn't it?
Reacting in a defensive way due to critisism
Taking something personal while it isn't but intended to point out the collective or the interconnected.
Then again I as I think about every kid is mostly raised by childish parents with their own deeply rooted churning conflicts unlike the non-human animal we're just not a mature species. And religious scripture suggesting animals can't "awaken" or are somehow a less advanced species - which is just false and arrogant, doesn't really help

Just finished the "be water" episode of espn's 30 for 30 about the life of Bruce Lee, Asian ppl weren't even consider human or perhaps a little bit on the "human spectrum" in the USA, when covid broke out in Wuhan, some Dutch ppl smeared feces on Chinese restaurants. Yep humans surely are the deluded species on earth, ofcourse animals have no need for buddhadharma or any religion, guess why? Some ppl are animal communicators, I've known one, I'm not a medium but had flashes of communication, the cia even uses them because often pets are witness of crimes, the animal then in detail communicates the crime, the name of the perpetrator so the secret agents can make an arrest. Ofcourse that is not in the news, that animals prevent terrorist attacks, because we don't want humans to think we're equals, we need to make billions of cutting of their heads. Just dehumanize them, like we do/did with woman, asians, blacks etcetera ;)

Yes most of us are operating on a primitive level, giving up our innate wisdom and power and laying it in the hands of parents, school teachers, zen teachers, science and scripture, to tell us who and what we are, and we eat it all up, the lies.
So, eat meat or don't- But it's a mistake not to share awareness of what happens to animals- We are animals ourselves- And the article above provides examples of what happens to us-
:namaste:

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Re: What's wrong with.... (the "dharmavegan" topic)

Post by fuki » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:34 am

Image

*OPEN LETTER TO NON-VEGANS*

If you're not vegan, then you probably don't know who this is. Her name was Regan Russell, and she was an animal rights activist. She died today at the location where these pictures were taken, Fearmans slaughterhouse.

Her activism was peaceful. She was there to give the pigs in the slaughterhouse trucks some water and show the world what happens at locations like this. Something she's done for years. But today, days after a bill was passed that will soon make even this type of activism illegal, a slaughterhouse truck driver ran her over. She died on the spot.

As a non-vegan, you might think that this has nothing to do with you. A vegan activist got killed while doing vegan activism. You're not vegan and you've never been to a slaughterhouse, so it doesn't seem relevant to you, I get it. But please understand that you're at the center of this story.

You see, vegan activists and the animal industries have one thing in common: We both think you might stop buying animal products if you saw what you were funding.

That's why the people in the industries oppose us, because we want YOU to see. We're fighting for the animals, yes, but we're also fighting for your right to make an informed decision. We want you to see what they're doing to these animals because, when it comes down to it, we don't think you really want to fund it. And neither do they. So, they fight us at every turn.

Think about it. They're not afraid that we're going to harm the animals, we're vegans. They're afraid of our cameras. That's why they lobby so hard to make it illegal for us to film, and why these truck drivers, who drive hundreds of pigs to their death in a single trip, don't want us around. They ran over a peaceful woman today because they didn't want her to show YOU what they're doing.

So, please do yourself a favor, and watch a documentary on the animal industries. See what Regan wanted you to see, and then make up your own mind about it.

I recommend the documentary Dominion. You can watch it here for free: https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko

Image
42864426_708536069528928_8716094725129502720_o.jpg
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Re: What's wrong with.... (the "dharmavegan" topic)

Post by p22 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:34 am

fuki wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:27 am
p22 wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:18 am
https://vegworldmag.com/animal-activist ... urlington/

Maybe everything is wrong with the topic- Maybe what's wrong with it can't be talked about but seen- And once seen (the mirror held up) denial occurs and manifests as more violence because wants are deeply seated in people- People who don't want to be thought of as wrong-
Yes but it's kind of childish isn't it?
Reacting in a defensive way due to critisism
Taking something personal while it isn't but intended to point out the collective or the interconnected.
Then again I as I think about every kid is mostly raised by childish parents with their own deeply rooted churning conflicts unlike the non-human animal we're just not a mature species. And religious scripture suggesting animals can't "awaken" or are somehow a less advanced species - which is just false and arrogant, doesn't really help

Just finished the "be water" episode of espn's 30 for 30 about the life of Bruce Lee, Asian ppl weren't even consider human or perhaps a little bit on the "human spectrum" in the USA, when covid broke out in Wuhan, some Dutch ppl smeared feces on Chinese restaurants. Yep humans surely are the deluded species on earth, ofcourse animals have no need for buddhadharma or any religion, guess why? Some ppl are animal communicators, I've known one, I'm not a medium but had flashes of communication, the cia even uses them because often pets are witness of crimes, the animal then in detail communicates the crime, the name of the perpetrator so the secret agents can make an arrest. Ofcourse that is not in the news, that animals prevent terrorist attacks, because we don't want humans to think we're equals, we need to make billions of cutting of their heads. Just dehumanize them, like we do/did with woman, asians, blacks etcetera ;)

Yes most of us are operating on a primitive level, giving up our innate wisdom and power and laying it in the hands of parents, school teachers, zen teachers, science and scripture, to tell us who and what we are, and we eat it all up, the lies.
So, eat meat or don't- But it's a mistake not to share awareness of what happens to animals- We are animals ourselves- And the article above provides examples of what happens to us-
:namaste:
Children who have been criticized might respond defensively to truth- But when adults respond in the same manner to truth I don't think they're being childish- Just acting like conditioned adults- Like myself, for example- I make an effort to be mindful and yet find myself defending what I think I thought I knew rather than being open to seeing something new, from a different perspective, more collective, one of many, rather than centered-

Animals eat animals- I've no idea if they've the notion that they are treating another creature as less when they hunt, kill then consume- Sometimes an animal being attacked is like "no way mother fucker" and escapes- Then sometimes you have one animal attack one animal in a herd of like one thousand- The poor thing bays one last time "thanks guys!" then just lays there averting it's eyes while being disemboweled and eaten alive-

Then there's the elephants ..

The last 30 for 30 I watched was The Price of Gold back when I, Tonya was released- Another saga of better vs less ..

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Re: What's wrong with.... (the "dharmavegan" topic)

Post by p22 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:52 am

fuki wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:34 am
Image

*OPEN LETTER TO NON-VEGANS*

If you're not vegan, then you probably don't know who this is. Her name was Regan Russell, and she was an animal rights activist. She died today at the location where these pictures were taken, Fearmans slaughterhouse.

Her activism was peaceful. She was there to give the pigs in the slaughterhouse trucks some water and show the world what happens at locations like this. Something she's done for years. But today, days after a bill was passed that will soon make even this type of activism illegal, a slaughterhouse truck driver ran her over. She died on the spot.

As a non-vegan, you might think that this has nothing to do with you. A vegan activist got killed while doing vegan activism. You're not vegan and you've never been to a slaughterhouse, so it doesn't seem relevant to you, I get it. But please understand that you're at the center of this story.

You see, vegan activists and the animal industries have one thing in common: We both think you might stop buying animal products if you saw what you were funding.

That's why the people in the industries oppose us, because we want YOU to see. We're fighting for the animals, yes, but we're also fighting for your right to make an informed decision. We want you to see what they're doing to these animals because, when it comes down to it, we don't think you really want to fund it. And neither do they. So, they fight us at every turn.

Think about it. They're not afraid that we're going to harm the animals, we're vegans. They're afraid of our cameras. That's why they lobby so hard to make it illegal for us to film, and why these truck drivers, who drive hundreds of pigs to their death in a single trip, don't want us around. They ran over a peaceful woman today because they didn't want her to show YOU what they're doing.

So, please do yourself a favor, and watch a documentary on the animal industries. See what Regan wanted you to see, and then make up your own mind about it.

I recommend the documentary Dominion. You can watch it here for free: https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko

Image

42864426_708536069528928_8716094725129502720_o.jpg
No major news network is covering this event ..

Tipping Point: "the moment of critical mass, the threshold, the boiling point" -- Gladwell

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tipping_Point

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Re: What's wrong with.... (the "dharmavegan" topic)

Post by Turtle Clan » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:05 pm

p22 wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:52 am
No major news network is covering this event.
Vehicular homicide or traffic accident? Either way why would her death attract national media attention? Her cause is only noble in the eyes of relatively few. The tipping point remains beyond the beyond. I only was able to make a strong determination to stop consuming animals when, while on the highway, our car was passed by a pig transport truck and I had eye to eye contact with a pig going to slaughter. That was piercing.

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Re: What's wrong with.... (the "dharmavegan" topic)

Post by Larry » Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:54 pm

Image

Just messing with the modeling :mrgreen:

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Re: What's wrong with.... (the "dharmavegan" topic)

Post by Turtle Clan » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:10 pm

Larry wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:54 pm
Just messing with the modeling :mrgreen:
Please clarify “the modeling”.
Thanks.

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Re: What's wrong with.... (the "dharmavegan" topic)

Post by Larry » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:33 pm

“Messing with the modeling” was a phrase Fuki used to justify, tongue in cheek, going on a Zen forum and taking the mickey out of Buddhism.

If “Sacred Cows” are being created, I’m ready for the Jihad :lol:

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Re: What's wrong with.... (the "dharmavegan" topic)

Post by Turtle Clan » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:57 pm

So what is the modeling here?
Jihad is itself a sacred cow, to many.
Is compassion activism a sacred cow?

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Re: What's wrong with.... (the "dharmavegan" topic)

Post by Larry » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:10 pm

It’s not all that complicated. Just hoping that Veganism isn’t a topic that’s out of bounds for mickey taking if everything else is fair game.

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Re: What's wrong with.... (the "dharmavegan" topic)

Post by Turtle Clan » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:19 pm

Larry wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:10 pm
It’s not all that complicated. Just hoping that Veganism isn’t a topic that’s out of bounds for mickey taking if everything else is fair game.
What is the objective of mickey taking as applied to veganism?
I would say that it is complicated.

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Re: What's wrong with.... (the "dharmavegan" topic)

Post by fuki » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:24 pm

Larry wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:10 pm
It’s not all that complicated. Just hoping that Veganism isn’t a topic that’s out of bounds for mickey taking if everything else is fair game.
Actually on first glance when I saw that cartoon my initial brain clutter interpretated as "oh another comparising with a field of corn while we're discussing the torture of animals/factory farming" But I see what you did there, good messing around :hatsoff:

But I advice you not to do that on a fb vegan place/space :lol:

ps messing with the modeling was quoting Jundo, I don't take the mickey out of Buddhism, just with Buddhist models :D

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Re: What's wrong with.... (the "dharmavegan" topic)

Post by fuki » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:26 pm

Larry wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:54 pm
Image

Just messing with the modeling :mrgreen:
Eat that Mother.... Larry :lol:
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