Roots

Discussion of Zen history (including, but not limited to, Chinese Chan and Japanese Zen)

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Nicholas
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Roots

Post by Nicholas » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:12 pm

Before Bodhidharma's visit to China was there a monastery or group that practiced like him in India?

Did the lineage list where B. was 28th originate in China or was there an Indian based list too?

Is the word Chan from the Sanskrit dhyana or jnana?
Whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. -- MN 19

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[james]
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Re: Roots

Post by [james] » Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:22 pm

Nicholas wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:12 pm
Before Bodhidharma's visit to China was there a monastery or group that practiced like him in India?
I’m also interested. Did he go to China as a Dharma envoy? Was he and those in the lineage preceding him seen as arhants right back to Mahakashyapa. Or maybe he was a renegade and was pushed out by his Sangha.
Did the lineage list where B. was 28th originate in China or was there an Indian based list too?
On the Korinji website (link on one of Meido’s posts) there is a monastery lineage from six Buddhas before Shakyamuni on through the 27 “Indian” arhats and patriarchs, Bodhidharma, the 26 Chinese patriarchs, 28 generations of Japanese masters and transmission to USA on to people that Meido knows and studied with directly, I guess.
Is the word Chan from the Sanskrit dhyana or jnana?
According to Wikipedia jnana is a Sanskrit word meaning knowledge, whereas jhana comes from the Pāli word for concentration.

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Nicholas
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Re: Roots

Post by Nicholas » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:10 am

Red Pine answers adequately the question
Is the word Chan from the Sanskrit dhyana or jnana?
Zen. When Buddhist meditation was introduced to the Chinese,
the Sanskrit term dhyana was rendered zen-na and later shortened
to zen. In the beginning, this word simply meant “meditation.” But
it was used by the heirs of Bodhidharma to refer to the practice
of pointing directly to the mind, and it became the name of their
school as well. Nowadays, this term is pronounced ch’an in Mandarin
Chinese. But Mandarin is the Manchu pronunciation forced
upon the Chinese by the founders of the Ch’ing dynasty in the seventeenth
century, whereas the pronunciation retained in Japan and
in that part of China where Zen began comes much closer to the
original pronunciation, which was something like dzian. Because
Zen is closer to the pronunciation of Hui-neng, and because the
Japanese version of this teaching is better known in the West, I have
used Zen throughout this text as well as in my commentary.
From his Platform Sutra translation, p 146
Whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. -- MN 19

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jundocohen
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Re: Roots

Post by jundocohen » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:51 am

Hi,

Much of the story of Bodhidharma is likely made up, and if there was someone named "Bodhidharma" all the details of his life, teachings and what transpired were added later. Much of the Lineage back then is a cut and paste job of people who did not, and could not possibly, have known each other or had anything to do with Zen at all. It is doubtful that there was anything in India quite resembling Chan/Zen as it is largely the product of Indian Buddhism mixed with Chinese Taoist and other sensibilities.

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenEssays/Phi ... adigm.html

That being said, Bodhidharma is as real as real can be, the Lineage unbroken representing countless women and men known and unknown, the Teachings of Zen are on all continents and all times, as True as True can be.

A Koan.

Gassho, Jundo

PS - When I was in Guangzhou a few years ago, I saw where it is said he first touched shore. They have a marker.

Image
This is the Five Eyes Springs [in Guangzhou], where Bodhidharma supposedly pointed to the ground saying, “There is treasure there.” When people dug looking for gold, they found five springs of pure water. It is right at the exit of the subway! When you exit the subway, you almost trip over it.
https://hdstraveler.wordpress.com/2012/ ... u-temples/
Teacher at Treeleaf Zendo, a Soto Zen Sangha, an online practice place for folks who cannot commute to a Zen Center due to health, living in remote areas, work or family needs. The focus is Shikantaza 'Just Sitting' Zazen http://www.treeleaf.org

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Roots

Post by desert_woodworker » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:35 pm

Wonderful.

As true as true can be.

And if there was no Buddha, no Bodhidharma, there is surely Awakening, and Dharma.

Celebrate! Practice,

--Joe
"There is no beautifier of complexion, or form, or behavior, like the wish to scatter joy and not pain around us". – Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882)

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