A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

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boda
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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by boda » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:54 pm

el gatito wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:02 pm
the forum's main goals: to provide a serious learning and informational platform for Zen Buddhists, to encourage strong and correct Zen Buddhist practice, to educate beginners properly, and to be aligned well with the true spirit of Buddhadharma.

As all of this requires various rules, restrictions, moderation guidelines, TOS, etc.
From the TOS:
1.The primary purpose of Zen Space is to provide a forum for discussion of Zen Buddhism.
So you're wrong about main goals or primary purpose. In any case, different teachers have different views about what's 'correct', 'proper', and 'aligns well with the true spirit of Buddhadharma', so what you propose the main goals to be is not even possible. But it would be amusing to watch the spectacle of authority figures battling it out.

:fencing:

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by Wayfarer » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:29 pm

I respect El Gatito's choice as I think the Forum has become a more formal structure than was originally intended (and many thanks to El G for having gotten the forum up and running.)

I volunteered to try and work as an admin, however I don't have linux or PhP skills so am not really equipped for those roles. But I am going to persist as mod and also try to generate some useful posts.
The most important thing is not at all important.

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by Wayfarer » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:09 am

Oh well, never having done it, I don't know what I don't know! I would be willing to give it a try, though - might do that on the AWS demo account I've opened up.
The most important thing is not at all important.

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by bokki » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:41 am

btw, ElG, if u r leaving the admin, or what u call it..
i must say,
u have made a forum that is very functional an well designed.in such a short time.
thnx 2 u.
bokki

ps lol deep purple lol
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burst into flames.
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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by jundocohen » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:38 am

Dan74 wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:52 pm
When a forum has many rooms, one can be more like a dojo (because some see value in this), others like a Zen hyde park corner (because others prefer this), we just need to learn which is which, which is surely not too onerous.
As one small member here, I find this a lovely description. Some rooms for focused Practice in specific flavors and dedicated to Zen Practice, a few rooms for all kinds of things. Personally, as one voice, I like a Zen Buddhist Forum that is primarily focused on Zen Buddhist Practice, but can also talk about this and that and whatever on the side.

I think I echo a lot of folks here who thank El G and sure wish that he would reconsider.

Gassho, Jundo

PS -
But in all sincerity 'his personal internet dojo' I find pretty lowbrow and incorrect about someone who's given a great deal to this place. Especially coming from a member whose posts have been reported the most, who's apologised many times and been cut a great deal of slack. Too much I am beginning to think...
I sure hope that you don't mean me as the lowbrow (and that I am a different lowbrow)! I don't think that I said anything like that.
Teacher at Treeleaf Zendo, a Soto Zen Sangha, an online practice place for folks who cannot commute to a Zen Center due to health, living in remote areas, work or family needs. The focus is Shikantaza 'Just Sitting' Zazen http://www.treeleaf.org

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by Dan74 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:27 am

bokki wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:22 pm
But in all sincerity 'his personal internet dojo' I find pretty lowbrow and incorrect about someone who's given a great deal to this place. Especially coming from a member whose posts have been reported the most, who's apologised many times and been cut a great deal of slack. Too much I am beginning to think...
i expressed my view on what i think, thus "view".
i said "if anyone wants to make his.."..i did not mean jc, if thats what u want to say..
i reported my own post once.
i apologise many times, yes.

who r u 2 cut me any slack. no thnx, not interested.
do what u want with my posts, move or d e l e t e them .
or, else, ban me.

funny, tho, a post i thought was an opinion, a general one, in which im sure i meant no offense 2 anybody, should get such a reaction.
maybe u misunderstood my post, i hope so, since that post is one of the least id expect such reaction.
"too much, i think.."
i think 2 much.

thnx 4 that post of urs.
If you didn't imply Meido and I misunderstood, then I apologise.

And OK, as you say "no slack", treated like everyone else.

_/|\_

PS Jundo, no, you seem to have misread me completely. My reading of bokki's comment was that he had it aimed at Meido which I though was unfair and 'lowbrow'.

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by fuki » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:31 am

Dan74 wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:52 pm
When a forum has many rooms, one can be more like a dojo (because some see value in this), others like a Zen hyde park corner (because others prefer this), we just need to learn which is which, which is surely not too onerous.
I like the old sports cliche "There is no I in team"
yet the team is composed of many parts, so there will always be moments of friction when we can't freely adapt to situations/conditions, which will settle/pass too.
But any type of fixation will be an issue, any room needs rules ofcourse, I believe the "freedom" on zenspace is great. If this forum becomes more strict or more "free/wild" I'll just adapt. ofcourse I have a "preference" (meaning a working enviroment best suited to my spirit, just like everyone decorates his house differently according to his/hers aquired flavour) but in a community one always hase to adapt to the room, not each chair is comfy but I'll sit in it the best I can, which might differ per day.
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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by Dan74 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:49 pm

el gatito wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:36 pm
Recently, I was investigating the various line-ups in the history of Deep Purple, and there were more than ten, not to mention numerous Rainbow and White-snake developments by the former Deep Purple members. Means, why is it so difficult to consistently work as a stable and permanent team?.. That, as I think, is what would be important for the forum future, and not the coding/scripting skills. The forum cannot be run by a single soul, but the team unavoidably will generate an internal conflict, sooner or later. IMO.
Wayfarer wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:29 pm
I don't have linux or PhP skills so am not really equipped for those roles
Speaking of PHP/Linux servers/forum software, this is the first phpBB forum in my life, the first Linux hosting plan, and the first PHP maintenance/troubleshooting experience. Honestly, no kidding. My past experience related to Windows hosting and ASP scripting was dated back as far as late 1990-s -- early 2000-s and has nothing to do with all the modern programming environment which is now used. Having noticed that ZFI was running phpBB soft, I just Googled "how to install phpBB forum" and proceeded accordingly. Having heard of a free SSL certificate (there was no such thing in the 1990-s), I Googled it as well. That's all what is needed from a tech admin. Everyone can use search engines at this time, absolutely everyone. And they do provide answer to any sort of questions related to technical matters. As complicated as re-building your custom Linux kernel from the source code to fit your ancient laptop, and as basic as managing a forum through its native admin control panel. Nothing esoteric...
I don't see conflict as inevitable unless people on the team both have radically different and irreconcilable views of what the Forum should be and big egos to boot.

There was no significant conflict in my view while on DW team, though there were some disagreements. And there were some big changes made in that time that passed through a pretty rigorous team discussion.

This team work and people having different takes on issues is also very rewarding as it exposes our own biases and comfort/discomfort zones. The only time I see it as problematic is when you work with people you don't respect and so far this has not been the case for me either on ZFI, DW or here.

I keep getting messages from folks who complain there is too much fluff and nonsence on the Forum and not enough real Zen Buddhism, and from folks who complain about the rules and the discipline. To me it just seems that we have trouble living under the same 'roof', even a virtual roof, with people of a very different temperament/interest/involvement with Zen. But maybe it's still worth trying, even seeing as a part of practice? Or what do people suggest?

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by KeithA » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:15 pm

Thanks so much for the effort, El G!

_/|\_
Keith
You make, you get.

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by fuki » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:06 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:49 pm
I keep getting messages from folks who complain there is too much fluff and nonsence on the Forum and not enough real Zen Buddhism, and from folks who complain about the rules and the discipline. To me it just seems that we have trouble living under the same 'roof', even a virtual roof, with people of a very different temperament/interest/involvement with Zen. But maybe it's still worth trying, even seeing as a part of practice? Or what do people suggest?
I suggest that ppl who dont like fluff ignore the fluff and create real zen topics themselves, and those who complain about rules take a breath and adapt a little bit. theres nothing "strict" so far about zenspace at least in my view. You can never satisfy everyone unless you only allow certain type of ppl in who meet whatever criteria. To me it's all a bit ironic because SPACE is the name, otherwise call it zen1cloud. :P

also the forum is much too new to start complaining, constructive criticism sounds good but not too much since it's still early. again the "not belitteling the sky by looking through a pipe" metaphor comes to mind.
and as always if there are some issues, ask ppl nicely and see if things change instead of trying to force change through complaining.

you dont want ppl to fake or come to zenspace with preconceived notions about not posting fluff and posting "real zen" then the whole place becomes artificial. but thats just me. Sometimes when ppl talk about real zen I go kick a ball with a 9 year old, with no dwelling about which of the two is fluff or real zen, and yes in the same space.
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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by Fruitzilla » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:22 pm

fuki wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:06 pm
you dont want ppl to fake or come to zenspace with preconceived notions about not posting fluff and posting "real zen" then the whole place becomes artificial. but thats just me. Sometimes when ppl talk about real zen I go kick a ball with a 9 year old, with no dwelling about which of the two is fluff or real zen, and yes in the same space.
Do I sense a Ryokan vibe here? :559:

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by fuki » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:28 pm

Fruitzilla wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:22 pm
fuki wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:06 pm
you dont want ppl to fake or come to zenspace with preconceived notions about not posting fluff and posting "real zen" then the whole place becomes artificial. but thats just me. Sometimes when ppl talk about real zen I go kick a ball with a 9 year old, with no dwelling about which of the two is fluff or real zen, and yes in the same space.
Do I sense a Ryokan vibe here? :559:
Yes :mrgreen:

First days of Spring-the sky 
is bright blue, the sun huge and warm. 
Everything's turning green. 
Carrying my monk's bowl, I walk to the village 
to beg for my daily meal. 
The children spot me at the temple gate 
and happily crowd around, 
dragging to my arms till I stop. 
I put my bowl on a white rock, 
hang my bag on a branch. 
First we braid grasses and play tug-of-war, 
then we take turns singing and keeping a kick-ball in the air: 
I kick the ball and they sing, they kick and I sing. 
Time is forgotten, the hours fly. 
People passing by point at me and laugh: 
'Why are you acting like such a fool?' 
I nod my head and don't answer. 
I could say something, but why? 
Do you want to know what's in my heart? 
From the beginning of time: just this! just this!
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by E.T. » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:56 pm

In the zenforum I run in Denmark there are several 'restricted' areas invisible to those not invited. The most important of these are for actively practicing zen buddhists.

Maybe something like this would work here as well.
Buddhist Society (of Denmark) https://buddhistisksamfund.dk
Havredal Zendo https://havredalzendo.dk

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by fuki » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:08 pm

E.T. wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:56 pm
In the zenforum I run in Denmark there are several 'restricted' areas invisible to those not invited. The most important of these are for actively practicing zen buddhists.

Maybe something like this would work here as well.
Yes but instead of making it invisible, a certain section of the forum (call it Sangha for instance) can have its own set of stricter rules. There are already different rules for the regular forum and the lounge, why not create a sangha section with certain criteria, not actively practising zen buddhist could still read (and learn, be inspired, motivated etc)
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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by E.T. » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:25 pm

Invisible would generate much less admin / mod headaches.
Buddhist Society (of Denmark) https://buddhistisksamfund.dk
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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by fuki » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:53 pm

E.T. wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:25 pm
Invisible would generate much less admin / mod headaches.
True, but I wouldn't know about the criteria regarding 'actively practising zen buddhism'
I'd guess it would be the classical forum criteria of practicing with / without a sangha. Eventhough many ppl actively practise zen buddhism without having a current teacher/sangha. So whatever one does there will always be pissed of people and headaches. :D
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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by Crystal » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:38 pm

fuki wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:08 pm

Yes but instead of making it invisible, a certain section of the forum (call it Sangha for instance) can have its own set of stricter rules. There are already different rules for the regular forum and the lounge, why not create a sangha section with certain criteria, not actively practising zen buddhist could still read (and learn, be inspired, motivated etc)
That sounds like a very good idea. I am a practising Buddhist with long-term Vajrayana and Theravada experience at Dharma centres in "meat space" and I'm interested in learning more about Zen. I'm not going to be able to do that if the Zen practitioners are hidden in a secret forum on the website which I'll be forbidden to see!


_/|\_
Last edited by Crystal on Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by Caodemarte » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:41 pm

Crystal wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:38 pm
fuki wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:08 pm

Yes but instead of making it invisible, a certain section of the forum (call it Sangha for instance) can have its own set of stricter rules. There are already different rules for the regular forum and the lounge, why not create a sangha section with certain criteria, not actively practising zen buddhist could still read (and learn, be inspired, motivated etc)
That sounds like a very good idea. I am a practising Buddhist with Vajrayana and Theravada experience in "meat space" and I'm interested in learning more about Zen. I'm not going to be able to do that if the Zen practitioners are hidden in a secret forum on the website which I'll be forbidden to see!


Crystal _/|\_
Or you could make it visible, but only practioners could post.

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by bokki » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:00 pm

lol
this is what im talkin bout
not even 100 membs..LOL
and u v got these strange ideas..
the rabbit still in the woods , u r sharpening the stake..
some invincible fora ideas and true zen
and deep rules
lol
get a grip on reality
OPEN FORUM!
a dojo is a dojo, training is training.
a plebs zen forum is a peoples zen forum.
do not choke it!
if thats a big hit to u
a new idea 2 u
well
im sooo sry.
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by fuki » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:25 pm

bokki any "open forum" has its restraints, not sure which reality you speak of (or can grasp)

ppl are just sharing ideas here
isn't that open? any notion about open can also be narrow ;) :cat:
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