A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

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bokki
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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by bokki » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:00 pm

fuki, thnx for posting anything after my posts, iv said that b4, thnk u.

by open i mean open to all.
of course, on a open ZEN forum, it would b strange to ..say detail yesterdays football match. so rules r not per se d prob.
its to what length thees rules will develop.
el started this of his own free will 2 help. he clearly said things. about free ..& soo..
if u suspect that some1 here does not know what free an open is,
im sure some1 knows what constrained and in line means.

of course im only sharing my ideas and opinions here..

tho, if u have a notion of an ocean, is it wide..
or narrow?
a pear is a pear, an apple an apple.
whatever d notion.
im really not raising dharmic q? here, just plain expressing
y not? develop the ask the teacher fora, have rules, ok.
i think that would b great. with mabe stricter rules.
but, c, teachers have their sanghas. they teach. its their reflex.
if u relax a bit, some1 will soon be holding ur hand to steer u in the "right" way.
...hmm
i have a lot of confidence in dan, meido,..and d shy founder.
so, lets not mix dharmic knowledge into this, or else we will be saying..
do not dislike or like..
which is another total catastrophe, well worth a thread.

thnx, fuki, again.
bokki
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10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
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fuki
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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by fuki » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:14 pm

bokki, ever noticed that the notion of freedom is bondage? in the same way the conceptual designation of "open" is just an idea locked in a frame, so it's never truly open, it's just an idea born from identification with embodied existence. Please make Guo Gu happy and be truly free, where conceptual designations like bondage/liberation are cut with the sword of "emptiness"
now no for(u)m will be an object of bondage :D
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[james]
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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by [james] » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:16 pm

E.T. wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:56 pm
In the zenforum I run in Denmark there are several 'restricted' areas invisible to those not invited. The most important of these are for actively practicing zen buddhists.

Maybe something like this would work here as well.
Restricted in what way?
Invited by whom?
What is an actively practicing Zen Buddhist?
Was the forum that you are referring to set up this way from it’s beginning or as a result of the evolving wishes of it’s members?

I can’t see how having restricted areas would somehow give rise to topics of discussion that are currently impeded by the public nature of what we have here now. As Mr. Fluffy said, those who don’t like fluff can ignore it and those who desire deep Zen can create thread topics that will satisfy that need.

A change to the total format that I would advocate is that all the background complaining of this and that be in a public area of the forum or, if that is too discomforting, in a private/public area open to regularly posting members. If I may be sarcastic, “Complaining is not our Zen way”.

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by KeithA » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:43 pm

:560:

I had the same thoughts as James, so no need to reiterate.

_/|\_
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

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bokki
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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by bokki » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:52 pm

fuki, next time, plz.

james..lol. that bird is geting FAT on those worms..lol. it must be some x ray vision 4 worms or ..natural intuition..lol
A change to the total format that I would advocate is that all the background complaining of this and that be in a public area of the forum or, if that is too discomforting, in a private/public area open to regularly posting members
i really dont think i could have said my mind better than this. nothing 2 add, just 2 repeat.
thnx! james.
bokki
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson

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Dan74
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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by Dan74 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:08 am

You mean I should publish people's PMs??? I hope not.

People are free to post their complaining, if they wish and many have done so here. I think we see the picture well enough.

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bokki
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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by bokki » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:40 am

You mean I should publish people's PMs??? I hope not.
LOL LOL LOL
dan u just slapped me a laugh slap! lol! thnx!
i hope u dont publish ppls pms...
but u can freely publish mine...lol. ...LOL
That would b a laugh!

anyway, james did not talk bout pm
but open stating of opinion.
y would any1 fear a str8 opinion, publicly stated?
plz, dont get me wrong.
my opinion,
is this is generally heading well. very.
but lets not loose the freedom to express ourselfs
and thus throwing the baby with the water.

lol my posts a schizophrenic, too, ..LOL

but, lets not loose our freedom to search 4 the truth
although i already hear backlash words of wisdom 2 this.
thnx Dan
bokki
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by boda » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:53 am

Maybe create a fluff zone? :109:

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by jundocohen » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:12 am

fuki wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:06 pm

I suggest that ppl who dont like fluff ignore the fluff and create real zen topics themselves, and those who complain about rules take a breath and adapt a little bit. theres nothing "strict" so far about zenspace at least in my view. You can never satisfy everyone unless you only allow certain type of ppl in who meet whatever criteria. To me it's all a bit ironic because SPACE is the name, otherwise call it zen1cloud. :P
If I may explain why I am a bit of a stick in the mud ...

I see Zen Practice and Teachings as not unlike many of the traditional Asian arts such as Karate, Tea Ceremony and flower arranging. All those arts have a dedicated "Dojo" space where people come to Practice. One does not have a lesson in Karate, and suddenly a bunch of folks come charging onto the Dojo mats doing interpretive dance or hula hoops. Here, this "Zen Space" is not any one style of Zen Dojo, for we have many flavors of Zen here sharing the mats ... Rinzai and Soto, Son and Chan etc ... like Karate and Judo and Kendo and Aikido folks sharing the mats at the "Budokan" (Martial Arts Hall). However, the focus of the Budokan is martial arts, and the focus of this place is Zen, and this is a Dojo (not my Dojo, as I am but one Zen practitioner here, but all Zen folks' shared Dojo for Practice and communion. It does not belong to me or anyone ... except the site owner ... but it is a Zen Dojo for Zen Buddhism).

Now, the real Budokan in Japan has other rooms, where the interpretive dance and hula hoop people really can come and Practice, although it must never interfere with the core mission of Martial Arts practice! As you probably know, the one in Tokyo also is famous for its rock concerts!



And that is great, but it does not happen during the Kendo ...



So, in my book, when Practicing a traditional Path like Zen, one should focus on that art. Then, there can be other rooms for hula hoops, and all can share the Budokan.

Gassho, J
Last edited by jundocohen on Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
Teacher at Treeleaf Zendo, a Soto Zen Sangha, an online practice place for folks who cannot commute to a Zen Center due to health, living in remote areas, work or family needs. The focus is Shikantaza 'Just Sitting' Zazen http://www.treeleaf.org

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by jundocohen » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:28 am

E.T. wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:56 pm
In the zenforum I run in Denmark there are several 'restricted' areas invisible to those not invited. The most important of these are for actively practicing zen buddhists.

Maybe something like this would work here as well.
I actually recommended something in that direction when I first proposed a possible replacement for ZFI. Here is the model:

There would be dedicated areas for, for example, Rinzai, Soto, mixed Rinzai-Soto, Kwan Um, Chan, open primarily only to people with a serious Practice interest in those flavors. Others might be welcome, but when in the Rinzai Zone, one Practices and discusses Rinzai ways etc.

Whether they are "invisible," hmmm, I think they should be visible so that all can see. However, the Rinzai Zone is open to Rinzai folks to discuss Rinzai matters with other Rinzai teachers and practitioners. If someone is not a pretty serious student of Rinzai Zen they should not delve into the place and join in. Maybe it is not open for posting to others who need permission to come in to post by indicating that serious interest. Karate room for the Karate people to practice Karate, not flower arranging or hula hoops or Ozzie.

Whether the central "Zen Buddhism" area is open to people who are "kinda Zen," well, I would recommend against it in a Zen Buddhist Forum. Advaita, New Age ideas, Tibetan Buddhism and the like should not be so common there. There can be other places for that, but not in Zen Buddhism discussions. Karate in the Karate Dojo.

Again, I am just one member here, so I express one small opinion on how to organize the Dojo.

Gassho, J
Teacher at Treeleaf Zendo, a Soto Zen Sangha, an online practice place for folks who cannot commute to a Zen Center due to health, living in remote areas, work or family needs. The focus is Shikantaza 'Just Sitting' Zazen http://www.treeleaf.org

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Larry
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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by Larry » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:37 am

[james] wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:16 pm
E.T. wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:56 pm
In the zenforum I run in Denmark there are several 'restricted' areas invisible to those not invited. The most important of these are for actively practicing zen buddhists.

Maybe something like this would work here as well.
Restricted in what way?
Invited by whom?
What is an actively practicing Zen Buddhist?
Was the forum that you are referring to set up this way from it’s beginning or as a result of the evolving wishes of it’s members?

I can’t see how having restricted areas would somehow give rise to topics of discussion that are currently impeded by the public nature of what we have here now. As Mr. Fluffy said, those who don’t like fluff can ignore it and those who desire deep Zen can create thread topics that will satisfy that need.

A change to the total format that I would advocate is that all the background complaining of this and that be in a public area of the forum or, if that is too discomforting, in a private/public area open to regularly posting members. If I may be sarcastic, “Complaining is not our Zen way”.
:560:

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by Larry » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:44 am

bodhi wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:53 am
Maybe create a fluff zone? :109:
Invisible to those not invited. Very very serious Zen Buddhists not allowed :109:

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Dan74
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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by Dan74 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:14 am

One related idea would be to provide a private space for teachers to communicate with their current students. Not sure if there's interest though.

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by Wayfarer » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:09 am

At the end of the day it’s a public Internet forum. I wouldn’t overdo the ‘sacred space’ dimension at this point. That is what ought to be reserved for the real dojo. Certainly - respect for teachers and the subject matter, but not necessarily a dedicated enclave.
The most important thing is not at all important.

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by E.T. » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:29 am

Restricted by being invisible
Invited by me
The 'practicing buddhists: Those actively practicing with/under me
Set up: By me at request from students.

The forum is also used for/by other groups with their own invisible (to the public) areas.
Buddhist Society (of Denmark) https://buddhistisksamfund.dk
Havredal Zendo https://havredalzendo.dk

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by fuki » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:20 am

jundocohen wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:12 am

If I may explain why I am a bit of a stick in the mud ...

I see Zen Practice and Teachings as not unlike many of the traditional Asian arts such as Karate, Tea Ceremony and flower arranging...
I respect that Jundo, just not my cup of tea and I don't think it's something reachable in that sense concerning what Dan said earlier about having such a variety of ppl with different characters, backgrounds, culture etc.
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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by KeithA » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:45 am

Wayfarer wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:09 am
At the end of the day it’s a public Internet forum. I wouldn’t overdo the ‘sacred space’ dimension at this point. That is what ought to be reserved for the real dojo. Certainly - respect for teachers and the subject matter, but not necessarily a dedicated enclave.
I tend to agree. Zen Buddhism is first and foremost a practice, not some kind of theory to discuss. So, there will be a fair amount of banter, with some Zen mixed in. There have been some very deep and interesting discussions. And there has been some banter. It is what it is.

This place is fairly quiet as it is (and that's ok!) I think further sub-dividing it will reduce the forum to crickets. :107:
No need at all of hills and streams
For quiet meditation;
When the mind had been extinguished
Even fire is refreshing.
some Zen saying...

_/|\_
You make, you get.

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by boda » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:07 pm

Larry wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:44 am
bodhi wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:53 am
Maybe create a fluff zone? :109:
Invisible to those not invited. Very very serious Zen Buddhists not allowed :109:
An invisible fluff zone, perfect!

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by Anders » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:15 pm

bokki wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:41 am
btw, ElG, if u r leaving the admin, or what u call it..
i must say,
u have made a forum that is very functional an well designed.in such a short time.
thnx 2 u.
bokki

ps lol deep purple lol
Well put. I concur. :namaste:

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Re: A good-bye and a big thank-you to El Gatito in his role as the Systems Admin

Post by Anders » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:27 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:49 pm
I keep getting messages from folks who complain there is too much fluff and nonsence on the Forum and not enough real Zen Buddhism, and from folks who complain about the rules and the discipline. To me it just seems that we have trouble living under the same 'roof', even a virtual roof, with people of a very different temperament/interest/involvement with Zen. But maybe it's still worth trying, even seeing as a part of practice? Or what do people suggest?
We had this problem at E-sangha as well in the Zen forum at one point, which was how I ended up as moderator there in the first place.

The approach I took at the time was to announce a funnel thread for all off topic posts and just indiscriminately move chitter and chatter posts there without warning or announcement. Not all of it, but whenever I felt like it was becoming a thing which was still often enough.

A few people felt it was heavy handed, but I felt it was a kinder approach than deleting posts, closing topics or issuing warnings, and I think people understood quickly enough that if a post was missing it was to be found in the funnel thread. I didn't want to take away people's voice or expression, just help focus it into the proper areas. I was also happy to do requests for splitting discussions out of the funnel thread.

My impression was that it did help focus the discussion a lot, although really others should be the judge of it. Also, it's much easier on the moderator too, when you are just moving posts around rather than telling people what they should or should not be doing.

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