How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

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How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

I think the Forum is doing just fine and don't have any major suggestions for change.
12
18%
The Forum is quite OK, but a few things could be better (see below for a list of suggestions to vote on).
9
14%
The Forum, as it stands, is not great. Major changes are needed (see below for a list of suggestions to vote on).
4
6%
I don't hold much hope for this place.
1
2%
Suggestion 1: Moderation is too lax and needs to come down on the time-wasters and the rudeness.
13
20%
Suggestion 2: Moderation is too strict and needs to lay off and let posts and threads be.
2
3%
Suggestion 3: The conversation is dominated by the same voices and I can't really relate to it very much.
5
8%
Suggestion 4: I wish Teachers and more experienced folks chimed in more.
9
14%
Suggestion 5: I wish there were fewer "Teachers" and people setting others straight. I feel too intimidated by the self-appointed heavy-weights to join in the conversation or ask something.
3
5%
Suggestion 6: I don't see the relevance of a lot of what is said to Zen or to my life and practice.
7
11%
 
Total votes: 65

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Dan74
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How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by Dan74 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:30 am

Please tick the poll (only takes a minute) and post comments if you like. I hope that especially non-active members do it, since we nominally have 99 members but only a handful are active. I'd like to know what could be better here.

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fuki
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by fuki » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:24 pm

Currently I see no possibility to vote without it being connected to past attachments....interesting.

I'd like to vote "all's fine" but I notice there's an attached preference there instead of it just being an aquired flavour (like vanilla over chocolate) and since my life/practise needs to be in accordance with burning up all grasping for preferences I can't really vote in the "present"

Thanks for the mirror Dan the man, :cat:
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
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desert_woodworker
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by desert_woodworker » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:54 pm

Yeoman's work!, all Moderators and posting Members. With thanks,

--Joe

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boda
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by boda » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:48 pm

I chose that the forum is Okay.

Oddly, I couldn't pick any of the suggestions.

I do have a suggestion though, focus on attracting the kind of members that you want. Getting caught-up in the right amount of moderation is a losing battle, imo. The right amount of moderation is in the name itself: MODERATE. :P
Last edited by boda on Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fuki
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by fuki » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:52 pm

bodhi wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:48 pm
I chose that the forum is Okay.

Oddly, I couldn't pick any of the suggestions.
Those suggestions are only related when you pick "it's quit ok but there's room for improvement"
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
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boda
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by boda » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:54 pm

fuki wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:52 pm
bodhi wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:48 pm
I chose that the forum is Okay.

Oddly, I couldn't pick any of the suggestions.
Those suggestions are only related when you pick "it's quit ok but there's room for improvement"
Right, that's what I picked.

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michaeljc
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by michaeljc » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:59 am

I voted for the first option. I feel that the forum is going along quite nicely. It has a more relaxed atmosphere than ZFI where I always had the feeling that Big Brother was lurking in the background. One observation is that it looks as though some posters treat it a bit like a personal blog. This does not concern me too much as I don't read long posts :)

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fuki
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by fuki » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:30 pm

Dan, next time you make a poll can you add an "don't know" option.

other poll suggestions;
- you make, you get
- larry for president

ok I voted
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
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fuki
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by fuki » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:25 pm

bodhi wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:48 pm
focus on attracting the kind of members that you want.
Sounds like a dating profile :P

I dunno, depends on how the terms of service are defined perhaps. Any desire for change based on personal prefences (aversion, attraction) is a recipe for you know what....
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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boda
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by boda » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:40 pm

fuki wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:25 pm
bodhi wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:48 pm
focus on attracting the kind of members that you want.
Sounds like a dating profile :P

I dunno, depends on how the terms of service are defined perhaps. Any desire for change based on personal prefences (aversion, attraction) is a recipe for you know what....
Improvement?

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fuki
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by fuki » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:08 pm

bodhi wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:40 pm

Improvement?
That happens by itself if we're not result-orientated,
searching for improvements is the very imbalance we're trying to correct, thus the attempt is the impediment. Sure there's room for improvement, but that happens by "letting go" of fixated patterns in consciousness, not by being run by fantasies of improvement which are driven by desire and fear.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
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[james]
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by [james] » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:12 pm

fuki wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:08 pm
bodhi wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:40 pm

Improvement?
That happens by itself if we're not result-orientated,
searching for improvements is the very imbalance we're trying to correct, thus the attempt is the impediment.
So are you saying, Mr. Fluffy, that fart jokes are an improvement?

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fuki
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by fuki » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:21 pm

[james] wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:12 pm

So are you saying, Mr. Fluffy, that fart jokes are an improvement?
Fart jokes are fart jokes.

Dick jokes are dick jokes, it was fun for a while laughing with Larry, now it's gone...I love how everything disappears, impermanence, one day the Earth will be gone too. The idea of improvement is based on the past, such an improvement is fragile and as changeful as the weather, each moment can be fresh and unconditioned, abandoning the need for improvement is the biggest improvement possible for any place/space.

Ofcourse behaviour may always be corrected, but it need not be connected to the illusion of a personal story in time. Then there is no coming and no going, no becoming and no improvement, now that's improvement! :hatsoff:
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
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[james]
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by [james] » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:00 pm

It wasn’t fun at all and now it’s gone and that’s an improvement.

The idea of improvement is based on a craving or aversion arising from reaction to the present situation. Each moment is already, always, fresh and unconditioned regardless of a perception or a need or a desire that improvement might be satisfying. Of course every improvement is fragile, as is the status quo. Accepting that and knowing that change is fundamental doesn’t necessarily support the position that abandoning the need for improvement is the way to go.

“May all beings come out of their misery. May all beings be liberated” someone once said, S.N. Goenka, I think. How would that be possible without some sort of drive to “improvement”?

How can behavior be unconnected to a personal story in time?

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Dan74
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by Dan74 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:13 pm

Sometimes the mind may be too open, so one loses track of the details and the common sense.

If a bunch of self taught musicians take over the music college, throw away all sheet music and just sit around and jam all day, there may well be some fun stuff coming out (or some awful stuff) but it won't do the students a great deal of good. A structure and a balalce is needed. Same here. All IMO of course.

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fuki
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by fuki » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:19 pm

[james] wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:00 pm
It wasn’t fun at all and now it’s gone and that’s an improvement.
Why didn't you say so? I'm happy things have improved for you! Apologies for being the cause of any vexation.
The idea of improvement is based on a craving or aversion arising from reaction to the present situation.
Craving and aversion is always due to an injection of a self, a person, a "me" story in time, which comes from identyfing the present with the past. Nothing fresh unconditioned or timeless-ly present about it, that's just a fantasy the conditioned mind adds to perception.
"May all beings come out of their misery. May all beings be liberated” someone once said, S.N. Goenka, I think. How would that be possible without some sort of drive to “improvement”?
If you dream your house is on fire, then when you awake in the morning do you go back to the dream extinguishing the fire? "Liberation" is not a personal project of improving, of attaining or re-moving, the drive to "awaken" is just the Heart calling you "home" and home is not here or there, not a dreamy land or place we find ourself by improving or moving.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
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fuki
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by fuki » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:24 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:13 pm
Sometimes the mind may be too open, so one loses track of the details and the common sense.

If a bunch of self taught musicians take over the music college, throw away all sheet music and just sit around and jam all day, there may well be some fun stuff coming out (or some awful stuff) but it won't do the students a great deal of good. A structure and a balalce is needed. Same here. All IMO of course.
:560:

Live and learn.
Off Sitting, live gladly all :111:
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Dan74
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by Dan74 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:15 pm

Looks like 17 people have replied so far. Very interesting and food for thought for the team. I hope a few more people chime in. What does your ideal Zen Forum look like?

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boda
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by boda » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:27 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:13 pm
Sometimes the mind may be too open, so one loses track of the details and the common sense.

If a bunch of self taught musicians take over the music college, throw away all sheet music and just sit around and jam all day, there may well be some fun stuff coming out (or some awful stuff) but it won't do the students a great deal of good. A structure and a balalce is needed. Same here. All IMO of course.
Speaking of common metaphorical sense, is this place the college or the ‘Zen Lounge,’ down the street from the college?
What does your ideal Zen Forum look like?
Good question. It looks just like the Zen Lounge.

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jundocohen
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by jundocohen » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:40 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:15 pm
Looks like 17 people have replied so far. Very interesting and food for thought for the team. I hope a few more people chime in. What does your ideal Zen Forum look like?
Hi Dan,

I have said this before, which makes me a real Zen stick in the mud around here (although hopefully also a lotus in the mud):

1- Civil, polite discussion about Zen history, doctrines, practices and the like which can criticize, disagree and debate ideas, but not the people who hold the ideas. In doing so, there is always a "we agree to disagree" attitude where no one path suits all, and we cherish and honor our differences (and commonality too). That being said, the ideas can be debated honestly. Nobody's practice is superior, and just different paths on the mountain. We need to know the difference between discussion and disagreement on ideas and offering strong rebuttals (okay) and criticizing the people who hold some idea we disagree with (not okay), with everyone respectful of the other person's practice in their separate traditions.

2- There is some discernment by moderators between legitimate "Zen speak" and being a bit Koany, and just "muu goo bus orange" babbling on and weirdness. Sorry, but the latter tends to predominate sometimes, and I think the Zen masters of old would have tossed such folks out of the room. I love some creativity and humorous poetic expression as much as the next person, but it tends to dominate this forum and just is a mess. I think our moderators are experienced enough in Zen Practice to know the difference between "sound of one hand clapping" and "Is a bus a business or a bushel of oranges, let's discuss." Also, much flexibility in what is "Zen" and "Buddha," although not beyond the breaking point of "everything is Zen" so one can say anything.

Just my personal view, I am not the last word on anything including forum management.

Gassho, J
Teacher at Treeleaf Zendo, a Soto Zen Sangha, an online practice place for folks who cannot commute to a Zen Center due to health, living in remote areas, work or family needs. The focus is Shikantaza 'Just Sitting' Zazen http://www.treeleaf.org

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