How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

News and information about the forum.

How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

I think the Forum is doing just fine and don't have any major suggestions for change.
12
18%
The Forum is quite OK, but a few things could be better (see below for a list of suggestions to vote on).
9
14%
The Forum, as it stands, is not great. Major changes are needed (see below for a list of suggestions to vote on).
4
6%
I don't hold much hope for this place.
1
2%
Suggestion 1: Moderation is too lax and needs to come down on the time-wasters and the rudeness.
13
20%
Suggestion 2: Moderation is too strict and needs to lay off and let posts and threads be.
2
3%
Suggestion 3: The conversation is dominated by the same voices and I can't really relate to it very much.
5
8%
Suggestion 4: I wish Teachers and more experienced folks chimed in more.
9
14%
Suggestion 5: I wish there were fewer "Teachers" and people setting others straight. I feel too intimidated by the self-appointed heavy-weights to join in the conversation or ask something.
3
5%
Suggestion 6: I don't see the relevance of a lot of what is said to Zen or to my life and practice.
7
11%
 
Total votes: 65

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bukowski
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by bukowski » Tue May 29, 2018 6:18 pm

Hi Dan/all.

Interesting discussion.

I drop by here every now and then. I don't find i have that much to say these days, but i do enjoy reading peoples perspectives. I think that the further down the specific informed discussion path a site develops the smaller the cohort who will inhabit the space.

However in my experience that space can be richer and more productive for the small number of practitioners who visit regularly. I think back to my days as an esangha mod. I think at least two thirds of the people who visited were there for the drama. The great joy of watching Namdrol go to war, offending people left and right ,and the literal/non literal re-birth threads drew huge crowds, and lots of people were banned for having a different perspective to the site mods.

e-sangha was popular, but for all the wrong reasons, and amongst all of the chaos were some really dedicated practitioners sharing experiences and learning from each other.

I was also there for the start of ZFI. Very quickly the people who founded, or who were involved in discussions around the founding of that forum left or moved on. What i saw then was a lack of tolerance of different posting styles, and a pecking order form between those with a "serious" practice and those who may have had a more relaxed, some would say pop culture type of practice and understanding.

For me, a strong forum caters for both the traditional and the populist. i would avoid making this a hierarchy, as i think both have something to offer, and the key is tolerance of each other, checking our own ego's and trying to avoid finding fault with others, when we are not so willing to find fault in ourseleves.

Alternately the mods can get strict and run the forum for a small number of "serious" practitioners, or back off completely and allow the drama and chaos to ensue.

As in so many things, i think the middle way is often the best. Thanks to all of you who work hard to bring the forum to life and keep it running.

Metta, bukowski. :namaste:

P.S. i would like to post a picture with my profile but i am not the most technical of people, so don't know how to. If anyone can advise i would appreciate it. P.P.S, for someone like me who is dyslexic a spell checker would be really useful.

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Fruitzilla
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by Fruitzilla » Tue May 29, 2018 6:42 pm

bodhi wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 6:07 pm
Fruitzilla wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 5:55 pm
bodhi wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 4:25 pm
jundocohen wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 10:40 am
Whatever this place is, it is not living up to its function and potential as a forum about Zen Buddhism. Most people seem to recognize that fact, and do not come back or bother at all after looking around. That is shown by the relatively high number of registrations (assuming this place is protected from bots), but low participation. This is also shown by the low number of responses even to the poll itself.
Actually, the numbers show a participation to registration rate of about 25%. If you look at the numbers at dharmawheel.net, a very successful Buddhist forum which more than lives up to its function and potential, the participation to registration rate is about 2.5%. Almost 10,000 registrations there, with 250 members who have over 250 posts.

A 25% participation to registration rate is actually quite good. I imagine this is true for any online forum.

In any case, we can't speculate as to why the 75% are not participating because we have no information to go by.

Am I the only one who can do that math? And I'm terrible at it. :lol:
There are serious structural issues.
If there's any truth to this you should be able to describe these issues.
If you look at vast difference in the number of registrations, the age and popularity of the forums the comparison doesn't hold up IMHO.
I could do more research but I suspect that high registration and low participation is a phenomenon which applies to most if not all online forum. Shall I look? 25% seems high by any standard.
Yes, it does indeed seem quite high. If you want to do more research I'd be interested in the results.

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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by Fruitzilla » Tue May 29, 2018 6:50 pm

bukowski wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 6:18 pm
Hi Dan/all.

Interesting discussion.

I drop by here every now and then. I don't find i have that much to say these days, but i do enjoy reading peoples perspectives. I think that the further down the specific informed discussion path a site develops the smaller the cohort who will inhabit the space.

However in my experience that space can be richer and more productive for the small number of practitioners who visit regularly. I think back to my days as an esangha mod. I think at least two thirds of the people who visited were there for the drama. The great joy of watching Namdrol go to war, offending people left and right ,and the literal/non literal re-birth threads drew huge crowds, and lots of people were banned for having a different perspective to the site mods.

e-sangha was popular, but for all the wrong reasons, and amongst all of the chaos were some really dedicated practitioners sharing experiences and learning from each other.

I was also there for the start of ZFI. Very quickly the people who founded, or who were involved in discussions around the founding of that forum left or moved on. What i saw then was a lack of tolerance of different posting styles, and a pecking order form between those with a "serious" practice and those who may have had a more relaxed, some would say pop culture type of practice and understanding.

For me, a strong forum caters for both the traditional and the populist. i would avoid making this a hierarchy, as i think both have something to offer, and the key is tolerance of each other, checking our own ego's and trying to avoid finding fault with others, when we are not so willing to find fault in ourseleves.

Alternately the mods can get strict and run the forum for a small number of "serious" practitioners, or back off completely and allow the drama and chaos to ensue.

As in so many things, i think the middle way is often the best. Thanks to all of you who work hard to bring the forum to life and keep it running.

Metta, bukowski. :namaste:

P.S. i would like to post a picture with my profile but i am not the most technical of people, so don't know how to. If anyone can advise i would appreciate it. P.P.S, for someone like me who is dyslexic a spell checker would be really useful.
Hi Bukowski :556:

I agree pretty much with all you say here. My practice is somewhat different from most Zen people, so I mostly tend to side with the more "casual" side.

As for the picture, if you click on your username then on the "edit profile" link, you'll see a tab on the left of your screen that says "Edit Avatar". From there you can click on the "browse" button to upload your picture.

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boda
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by boda » Tue May 29, 2018 7:54 pm

Fruitzilla wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 6:42 pm
bodhi wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 6:07 pm
I could do more research but I suspect that high registration and low participation is a phenomenon which applies to most if not all online forum. Shall I look? 25% seems high by any standard.
Yes, it does indeed seem quite high. If you want to do more research I'd be interested in the results.
I think a more productive line of inquiry would be to ask why, when performing a google search for "zen forum," this site comes up on the first page of results, 5th on the list, and yet there is only about 100 registrations for the last six months.

The first thing to look into is how often people are searching for "zen forum." I can look that up when I have more time. It could be that zen has lost popularity in recent years, not that it ever had much, due to the rise of competing practices (other Buddhist traditions, secular Mindfulness, etc.), or other cultural developments. Also, Zen has received some bad press in recent years.

If people are searching for a zen forum and this forum doesn't meet their expectations, we can speculate as to why that may be. Several members have speculated that a few prolific posters may be off-putting to potential members.

If we look at the top three posters, those with the highest post count, two of them have been singled out as off-putting, but not the third highest for some reason, even though the third highest is notoriously unpopular on Buddhist forums and the other two are good natured and do well on other forums, like dharmawheel.net. It seems much more reasonable to speculate that this notoriously unpopular member is putting people off more than it does to suspect that the other two highest posters are responsible, does it not?

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Dan74
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by Dan74 » Tue May 29, 2018 9:44 pm

Bodhi, you keep reading me wrong. I never said or implied that the two most prolific posters are offputting. I simply said that when one or two voices dominate the conversation disproportionately, this doesn't nurture a welcoming environment for others to chime in. Again, this isn't about the content or tone but volume.

If the entirety of the issues boiled down to two problematic posters, the solution wouldve been easy. ;)

The main issue that I see is that there aren't many serious practice-life threads (like the repentance thread, one of the breathing threads, etc). The few that there are are dwarfed by the banter which also spills over sometimes. Look, let's not get our knickers in a twist, as Michael suggests, but maybe we can turn out some good stuff yet. And inspire some newbies to decloak and join the fray!!

And thanks for chiming in, bukowski!

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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by fuki » Tue May 29, 2018 9:57 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 9:44 pm

If the entirety of the issues boiled down to two problematic posters, the solution wouldve been easy. ;)
I offer my neck to the sword, release the kitty! :lol:
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by boda » Tue May 29, 2018 10:03 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 9:44 pm
If the entirety of the issues boiled down to two problematic posters, the solution wouldve been easy. ;)
Kidding aside for the moment, I looked up some stats that may prove enlightening.

trends.png
trends.png (187.08 KiB) Viewed 1149 times

So I was correct in my speculation that interest in zen forums has declined in recent years. When are you guys gonna learn to listen to me. :P

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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by fuki » Tue May 29, 2018 10:20 pm

bodhi wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 10:03 pm

So I was correct in my speculation that interest in zen forums has declined in recent years. When are you guys gonna learn to listen to me. :P
Same for "Zen Buddhism"
Porn seems to be doing well, locally offline not many ppl seem interested also, guess everyone is happy with their digital distractions, facebooking, xboxing, shopping, politics etcetera. I remember the days ppl showed interest in the "spirituality" books I rented from the library.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by boda » Tue May 29, 2018 10:31 pm

fuki wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 10:20 pm
bodhi wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 10:03 pm

So I was correct in my speculation that interest in zen forums has declined in recent years. When are you guys gonna learn to listen to me. :P
Same for "Zen Buddhism"
Porn seems to be doing well, locally offline not many ppl seem interested also, guess everyone is happy with their digital distractions, facebooking, xboxing, shopping, politics etcetera. I remember the days ppl showed interest in the "spirituality" books I rented from the library.
Yup. I was thinking how when you used to go to the bookstore –– does anyone remember what those were? –– there were zen books in the spiritual section.

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fuki
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by fuki » Tue May 29, 2018 10:58 pm

bodhi wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 10:31 pm

Yup. I was thinking how when you used to go to the bookstore –– does anyone remember what those were? –– there were zen books in the spiritual section.
I still do sometimes on moms library card, great fun. Sometimes you find gems in second hand (recycle) stores, books you cant ever order online. I had an alchamy book in Arabic for years, couldn't read it but I loved it, found my first zen book in a second hand store, or it found me actually. Doesnt happen often that online things find you, well the stuff you dont need usually.

ps today, yesterday and tomorrow in Amsterdam theres an fifa qualifying tournament for xbox to advance to the world cup in London. It's live on tv even here. That these "kids" play 12 hours a day sponsored by local football clubs and commercial sponsors is one thing, what's most concerning is that they dont smile anymore, you can't tell me they're enjoying themselves, I can see obsession though. When they come home they play each other online some more :103:
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by boda » Tue May 29, 2018 11:05 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 9:44 pm
Bodhi, you keep reading me wrong. I never said or implied that the two most prolific posters are offputting. I simply said that when one or two voices dominate the conversation disproportionately, this doesn't nurture a welcoming environment for others to chime in. Again, this isn't about the content or tone but volume.
So just to be perfectly clear, if we go to the members page (tap on "Quick links" in the top left nav) and sift results by the number of posts that members have made, you are including #3 on the list. Too much volume by jundocohen.

Another rare instance where we are in complete agreement. :111:

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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by Wayfarer » Tue May 29, 2018 11:42 pm

Dan74 wrote:So what can we do?
I think Zen Space is doing OK. I don't agree that Zen Space is 'failing' or that there's anything fundamentally the matter with it.

I would like to see it presenting more informative content, and helping people understand what Zen practice, and Buddhist practice, in particular, means, in a day-to-day sense. (Not that the teachers here don't do that.)

That's why to begin with, I wanted to contribute some informational type articles and essays to function as sticky threads. (The initial attempt wasn't well received - and I understand why.)

I think Barbara O'Brien's articles on Thought Co are a great model, but then, that is on a different site and there's no way to reproduce such information. The two or three 'official' Zen Buddhist sites also have lot of useful information - http://www.zen-buddhism.net/, https://global.sotozen-net.or.jp/eng/index.html. But then, you run into the issue of 'too much information' - as someone once said, the Internet is like 'drinking from a fire hydrant', you're quickly overwhelmed by the amount of content that's available on any given topic. So somehow finding a way to select and present such content, even just on specific topics, might help provide a bit more 'stickiness' and make Zen Space a bit more of a resource site in addition to a discussion forum. (How about integrating an Amazon Bookstore? Doesn't take a lot to set up and run, just a US bank account number.)

So - the upshot is, I would like to see a way to present more practice guidelines and practical things that readers can adapt and use day to day. Chat about 'what Zen means to me' is intrinsically limited and becomes quite repetitive after a while. Zen is a form of training, it takes constant, well-motivated effort and discipline, we should be mainly concerned with how to follow that ourselves, and also to help others with it.
The most important thing is not at all important.

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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by clyde » Wed May 30, 2018 2:41 am

For background, I was one of the ‘founders’ of ZFI, served as Ombudsperson for a while, and had access to the ‘back room’ (admin & moderator) discussions. I remember the repeated discussions about the purpose of ZFI and whether ZFI was satisfying. And I remember my view on the matter: the forum has no essence, but is the expression of the active participants; so, if you’re not satisfied with the content of the forum, start topics and invite like-minded people to join the forum.

clyde


p.s: My only complaint is that I would prefer that threads remain on topic.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”

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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by lindama » Wed May 30, 2018 4:05 am

clyde wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 2:41 am
For background, I was one of the ‘founders’ of ZFI, served as Ombudsperson for a while, and had access to the ‘back room’ (admin & moderator) discussions. I remember the repeated discussions about the purpose of ZFI and whether ZFI was satisfying. And I remember my view on the matter: the forum has no essence, but is the expression of the active participants; so, if you’re not satisfied with the content of the forum, start topics and invite like-minded people to join the forum.

clyde


p.s: My only complaint is that I would prefer that threads remain on topic.
amen, exactly. (see underline above)

My point exactly about what I term agenda, orthodoxy, purity and control not being necessary. I have used these terms before, and no one seems to reflect waiting for me to explain.

I am fine with whatever shows up that is an expression.... zen topics or chats. It's the re-thinking that seems to have no purpose.... the river will flow off the cliff as it does, That is practice what ever it looks like. There are roots in expectations for zfi as well as disappointments... fixed in ideas of what could have been or what might be.... cold as stone.

A forum is not a substitute for formal practice. lol, it's too public, but can serve as a sincere sharing among folks whatever the topic is. that's why we come.

frankly, the good zennie civilians who opened my vista of the outer landscape of zen on zfi form are for the most part gone. Meido and Jundo can't carry the load alone .... and I'm no longer looking, tho others may be.

Que, sera, sera....

linda

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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by Dan74 » Wed May 30, 2018 5:41 am

Linda, you said earlier
Dear hearts, a so-called vibrant form is one that has dropped it's agenda.... it has been denied from the beginning, yet it persists.
Now you explain it as 'orthodoxy, purity and control'.

So we pretended to create an open forum and all the while wanted to enforce 'orthodoxy, purity and control', while denying it?

This is not the case.

Firstly, I am saddened by the accusation of dishonesty. Can you point to instances of this denial? I honestly have no idea where you could've perceived dishonesty.

You know I didn't intend to have a forum, and being in the middle of full time study, work and family commitments, while doing my best to settle in a new country, it's an extra job I could've done without. I will be looking to hand the ownership over, so I am hoping for expressions of interest.

If you look up my very first posts, I don't think you'll find there's been a substantial change. I had wanted the place to be primarily a Zen Buddhist discussion forum with focus, on topic posts and also allowing room for the freewheeling folks.

If you look at the poll, the vast majority of the participants and I guess this includes the regulars, complain of a lax moderation. So if we have an agenda, we've been doing a crap job enforcing it it seems.

But in a deeper sense, maybe you're right. My phd supervisor once said that everyone has an agenda. Not easy to discern one's own, so maybe this is where experienced Dharma sisters and brothers can help.

_/|\_







lindama wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 4:05 am
clyde wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 2:41 am
For background, I was one of the ‘founders’ of ZFI, served as Ombudsperson for a while, and had access to the ‘back room’ (admin & moderator) discussions. I remember the repeated discussions about the purpose of ZFI and whether ZFI was satisfying. And I remember my view on the matter: the forum has no essence, but is the expression of the active participants; so, if you’re not satisfied with the content of the forum, start topics and invite like-minded people to join the forum.

clyde


p.s: My only complaint is that I would prefer that threads remain on topic.
amen, exactly. (see underline above)

My point exactly about what I term agenda, orthodoxy, purity and control not being necessary. I have used these terms before, and no one seems to reflect waiting for me to explain.

I am fine with whatever shows up that is an expression.... zen topics or chats. It's the re-thinking that seems to have no purpose.... the river will flow off the cliff as it does, That is practice what ever it looks like. There are roots in expectations for zfi as well as disappointments... fixed in ideas of what could have been or what might be.... cold as stone.

A forum is not a substitute for formal practice. lol, it's too public, but can serve as a sincere sharing among folks whatever the topic is. that's why we come.

frankly, the good zennie civilians who opened my vista of the outer landscape of zen on zfi form are for the most part gone. Meido and Jundo can't carry the load alone .... and I'm no longer looking, tho others may be.

Que, sera, sera....

linda

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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by clyde » Wed May 30, 2018 6:38 am

clyde wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 2:41 am
p.s: My only complaint is that I would prefer that threads remain on topic.
p.p.s: I intended that to encourage self-moderation and member support.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”

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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by michaeljc » Wed May 30, 2018 6:40 am

Dan Wrote: If you look at the poll, the vast majority of the participants and I guess this includes the regulars, complain of a lax moderation.
Dan -

I don't know what you are studying, but it ain't statistics :)

20% voted for the above and you have no way of knowing how many of these were active participants

One can slew a poll through asking specific questions

The most telling post here is Bodhi's graph of Google Zen searches. It is exactly as I sensed towards the end of ZFI although I had seen no data

I expressed this belief in an above post by saying: "Its the tide silly!"

Chill out. You are doing a good job :waving:

Cheers

M

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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by Dan74 » Wed May 30, 2018 7:43 am

Hi Michael

'Vast majority' wasn't meant of all participants, so badly expressed on my part, but between the moderation too lax and moderation too strict, the vast majority voted moderation too lax.

As for 20%, no, the total answers for the first 4 questions make the best estimate of the number of participants, i think, since they are pretty much mutually exclusive. That makes 26. And 13, so half, voted for moderation too lax.

I'm not studying stats, but funnily enough I had worked as a statistician and have a grad dip in statistics from Melbourne uni... :D

As for the diminishing interest in Zen, yes, that's a factor for sure. Mind you we don't have to be a big forum, a good one would do! ;)

And yes, it's all ok, including working to make ok better.

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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by lindama » Wed May 30, 2018 1:29 pm

Apologies Dan, I don't see any dishonesty. It seems to me that it's a difference in points of view in the group. Seems to me that avoiding past mistakes is a factor as is sorting what is zen and what is not. Moving the Lounge out of sight is a sign. nuff, said

Dan74 wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 5:41 am
Linda, you said earlier
Dear hearts, a so-called vibrant form is one that has dropped it's agenda.... it has been denied from the beginning, yet it persists.
Now you explain it as 'orthodoxy, purity and control'.

So we pretended to create an open forum and all the while wanted to enforce 'orthodoxy, purity and control', while denying it?

This is not the case.

Firstly, I am saddened by the accusation of dishonesty. Can you point to instances of this denial? I honestly have no idea where you could've perceived dishonesty.

You know I didn't intend to have a forum, and being in the middle of full time study, work and family commitments, while doing my best to settle in a new country, it's an extra job I could've done without. I will be looking to hand the ownership over, so I am hoping for expressions of interest.

If you look up my very first posts, I don't think you'll find there's been a substantial change. I had wanted the place to be primarily a Zen Buddhist discussion forum with focus, on topic posts and also allowing room for the freewheeling folks.

If you look at the poll, the vast majority of the participants and I guess this includes the regulars, complain of a lax moderation. So if we have an agenda, we've been doing a crap job enforcing it it seems.

But in a deeper sense, maybe you're right. My phd supervisor once said that everyone has an agenda. Not easy to discern one's own, so maybe this is where experienced Dharma sisters and brothers can help.

_/|\_







lindama wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 4:05 am
clyde wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 2:41 am
For background, I was one of the ‘founders’ of ZFI, served as Ombudsperson for a while, and had access to the ‘back room’ (admin & moderator) discussions. I remember the repeated discussions about the purpose of ZFI and whether ZFI was satisfying. And I remember my view on the matter: the forum has no essence, but is the expression of the active participants; so, if you’re not satisfied with the content of the forum, start topics and invite like-minded people to join the forum.

clyde


p.s: My only complaint is that I would prefer that threads remain on topic.
amen, exactly. (see underline above)

My point exactly about what I term agenda, orthodoxy, purity and control not being necessary. I have used these terms before, and no one seems to reflect waiting for me to explain.

I am fine with whatever shows up that is an expression.... zen topics or chats. It's the re-thinking that seems to have no purpose.... the river will flow off the cliff as it does, That is practice what ever it looks like. There are roots in expectations for zfi as well as disappointments... fixed in ideas of what could have been or what might be.... cold as stone.

A forum is not a substitute for formal practice. lol, it's too public, but can serve as a sincere sharing among folks whatever the topic is. that's why we come.

frankly, the good zennie civilians who opened my vista of the outer landscape of zen on zfi form are for the most part gone. Meido and Jundo can't carry the load alone .... and I'm no longer looking, tho others may be.

Que, sera, sera....

linda

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boda
Posts: 542
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:27 am

Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by boda » Wed May 30, 2018 4:49 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 5:41 am
Can you point to instances of this denial?
Easily.
If you look at the poll, the vast majority of the participants and I guess this includes the regulars, complain of a lax moderation.
Some degree of cognitive dissonance, I suspect. I don’t think anyone would claim that you’re doing this consciously.

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