How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

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How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

I think the Forum is doing just fine and don't have any major suggestions for change.
12
18%
The Forum is quite OK, but a few things could be better (see below for a list of suggestions to vote on).
9
14%
The Forum, as it stands, is not great. Major changes are needed (see below for a list of suggestions to vote on).
4
6%
I don't hold much hope for this place.
1
2%
Suggestion 1: Moderation is too lax and needs to come down on the time-wasters and the rudeness.
13
20%
Suggestion 2: Moderation is too strict and needs to lay off and let posts and threads be.
2
3%
Suggestion 3: The conversation is dominated by the same voices and I can't really relate to it very much.
5
8%
Suggestion 4: I wish Teachers and more experienced folks chimed in more.
9
14%
Suggestion 5: I wish there were fewer "Teachers" and people setting others straight. I feel too intimidated by the self-appointed heavy-weights to join in the conversation or ask something.
3
5%
Suggestion 6: I don't see the relevance of a lot of what is said to Zen or to my life and practice.
7
11%
 
Total votes: 65

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boda
Posts: 542
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by boda » Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:29 am

fuki wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:03 am
bodhi wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:52 pm
There may be a plugin for limiting postings per time interval. Otherwise, if there were a consensus about how many per day I'd adhere to it, personally.
I dont agree, you will have situations where a member will not post for days, weeks, months and then perhaps post 20x in 20 minutes for instance
I suppose we could go by a running average. For example, if you look at the Overview on your User Control Panel under 'Total posts', it displays a number for posts per day. Mine is currently 2.64. To get it down to 2, for instance, I would need to post less than 2 posts per day for awhile. If it got down to one, I could post more than 2 for awhile, until it got up to 2 again. Make sense?

ol' spikey

Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by ol' spikey » Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:34 am

jundocohen wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:05 pm

I.e., there are times when we Zen folks (all of us) speak in Koans ...
Gassho, Jundo
My tradition is Rinzai. I was a student of Eido Roshi,the brilliant and flawed teacher, master of skillful means. "Speak in koans", as vernacular, has no meaning vis-à-vis actual koan study.

Jundo, I love you, I hope you are well. We fight the same foe.

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fuki
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by fuki » Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:38 am

bodhi wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:29 am

I suppose we could go by a running average. For example, if you look at the Overview on your User Control Panel under 'Total posts', it displays a number for posts per day. Mine is currently 2.64. To get it down to 2, for instance, I would need to post less than 2 posts per day for awhile. If it got down to one, I could post more than 2 for awhile, until it got up to 2 again. Make sense?
Makes sense, so what should/could the max nr of posts be?

ps as I mentioned I'm very non-talkative offline, since most interactions with ppl my job is to listen. So I enjoy time to time having many posts with Larry or Joe for instance if it develops spontaneously. It can add up quickly what image ppl project on that is amusing to observe, anyways if this forum's goal is a few posts per day and only about Zen Buddhism and its "quality" it will sever people freely talking, which I find a shame, I think there's warmth and love there.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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Meido
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by Meido » Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:54 am

If the forum's goal/TOS are in question or unclear, it might be a useful focus for us at this juncture to reread:

www.zen1.space/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86#p712
The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice
Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org

[Note: not reachable by PM. To get in touch please email through the website above.]

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fuki
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by fuki » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:12 am

Meido wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:54 am
If the forum's goal/TOS are in question, or unclear, it might be useful for us at this juncture to reread these points:

www.zen1.space/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86
The TOS are clear, however there seems to be some conflicting opinions uttered in this thread from a variety of members regarding how we are doing. The nr of posts thingy now and its suggested measures are they related to off-topic posts within Zen Buddhism? If so a reminder should be enough to self-moderate (make an announcement) if members comply why should a posting limiter be necessary since casual talk within the lounge is within the tos? If it is necessary afterall, sure, but I don't think so, unless we grow to 20k active members then it probably is. But Zen Space won't be that popular. Just make a sticky announcement in the active topics section, thank ppl for their activity and time for instance but remind them off some tos which habitually might have been breached "lately" You will find that an active friendly/warm communication with members via announcements will serve better then taking measures.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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Meido
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by Meido » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:16 am

Related specifically to folks ignoring this one i think:

8. Avoid posting excessively or compulsively: post only when your words contribute meaningfully to discussion of a thread’s topic. Casual chat is of course welcome in the Lounge.

Perhaps it is too loosely stated, so a # of posts per some time limit rule might serve?
The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice
Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org

[Note: not reachable by PM. To get in touch please email through the website above.]

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boda
Posts: 542
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by boda » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:18 am

fuki wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:38 am
ps as I mentioned I'm very non-talkative offline, since most interactions with ppl my job is to listen. So I enjoy time to time having many posts with Larry or Joe for instance if it develops spontaneously. It can add up quickly what image ppl project on that is amusing to observe, anyways if this forum's goal is a few posts per day and only about Zen Buddhism and its "quality" it will sever people freely talking, which I find a shame, I think there's warmth and love there.
I disagree that it would ‘sever’ free speech, if I’m close to interpreting what you mean by sever correctly. It would only limit the rate of speech. That would have an effect of course, but perhaps a good one, as I’ve speculated.

Also consider that this wouldn’t limit PM’s.

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fuki
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by fuki » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:25 am

Meido wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:16 am
Related specifically to folks ignoring this one i think:

8. Avoid posting excessively or compulsively: post only when your words contribute meaningfully to discussion of a thread’s topic. Casual chat is of course welcome in the Lounge.

Perhaps it is too loosely stated, so a # of posts per some time limit rule might serve?
I often forget that's true, hence the benefit of this topic. Though I would remove the word "compulsively" Perhaps that's because I know ppl who suffer from severe compulsive disorders. I still think it's too early for a time limit, but that's just 1 member's view. The one with the most posts :lol:
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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fuki
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by fuki » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:36 am

bodhi wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:18 am

I disagree that it would ‘sever’ free speech, if I’m close to interpreting what you mean by sever correctly. It would only limit the rate of speech. That would have an effect of course, but perhaps a good one, as I’ve speculated.

Also consider that this wouldn’t limit PM’s.
Sever as in "cut off" meaning not spontaneously speaking on the spot. Which will not improve the "quality" of my posts, but that might just be me. If I have 2 posts and read something amusing you'd think I'd go "oh I only have 2 posts" lets not make a joke but save my posts for something "meaningful" So much for being spontaneous, I'd probably go mute. :P
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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KeithA
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by KeithA » Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:02 am

ol' spikey wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:34 am
jundocohen wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:05 pm

I.e., there are times when we Zen folks (all of us) speak in Koans ...
Gassho, Jundo
My tradition is Rinzai. I was a student of Eido Roshi,the brilliant and flawed teacher, master of skillful means. "Speak in koans", as vernacular, has no meaning vis-à-vis actual koan study.

Jundo, I love you, I hope you are well. We fight the same foe.
"Speak in koans" is what one says when someone says when they want to denigrate koan practice as silly and nonsensical.

Keep up the good fight, whatever it may be! :hatsoff:
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

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lindama
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by lindama » Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:57 am

hey, ol' spikey.... nice to see you again. hope you are well. on no! I'm chatting

yep, speak in koans is vernacular.... last time I took issue with it.... it was something about koany. I'm not taking the bait again, choke, choke.

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boda
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by boda » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:11 am

ol' spikey wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:34 am
"Speak in koans", as vernacular, has no meaning vis-à-vis actual koan study.
We call them koany here, as in “speaking in a koany way.” It’s super easy once you get the hang of it/not-it.

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lindama
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by lindama » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:15 am

bodhi wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:11 am
ol' spikey wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:34 am
"Speak in koans", as vernacular, has no meaning vis-à-vis actual koan study.
We call them koany here, as in “speaking in a koany way.” It’s super easy once you get the hang of it/not-it.
:111:

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boda
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by boda » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:23 am

fuki wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:36 am
bodhi wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:18 am

I disagree that it would ‘sever’ free speech, if I’m close to interpreting what you mean by sever correctly. It would only limit the rate of speech. That would have an effect of course, but perhaps a good one, as I’ve speculated.

Also consider that this wouldn’t limit PM’s.
Sever as in "cut off" meaning not spontaneously speaking on the spot. Which will not improve the "quality" of my posts, but that might just be me. If I have 2 posts and read something amusing you'd think I'd go "oh I only have 2 posts" lets not make a joke but save my posts for something "meaningful" So much for being spontaneous, I'd probably go mute. :P
Actually I speculated that it might improve the quality of humor as well as meaningfulness. And to be brutally honest, improv may not be your thing anyway.

And just to be crystal clear, I see no problem at all with your posts and their frequency. I’m just trying to be cooperative.

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lindama
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by lindama » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:59 am

hmmm, it didn't occur to me to say this before.... I did not take the poll. it is a non-compute for me

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lindama
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by lindama » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:37 am

so.... is that two posts per day.... or per topic. either way, it seems I've gone beyond the beyond. ofc, if you look at a standardized posting ratio, I am below average

back in the day, there was a sangha that wanted to institute a policy of work in place of donations at an hourly rate... for those that couldn't contribute $$. Let that sink in.

Take it to the limit.....

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jundocohen
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by jundocohen » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:16 am

KeithA wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:02 am
ol' spikey wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:34 am
jundocohen wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:05 pm

I.e., there are times when we Zen folks (all of us) speak in Koans ...
Gassho, Jundo
My tradition is Rinzai. I was a student of Eido Roshi,the brilliant and flawed teacher, master of skillful means. "Speak in koans", as vernacular, has no meaning vis-à-vis actual koan study.

Jundo, I love you, I hope you are well. We fight the same foe.
"Speak in koans" is what one says when someone says when they want to denigrate koan practice as silly and nonsensical.

Keep up the good fight, whatever it may be! :hatsoff:
No.

Soto folks honor Koans too, and can do with them as we wish too. Stop thinking that only your corner of the Zen World has some copyright on the Koans or is the standard for what to say about "actual" Koan study and practice. Please do not denigrate others and their silly ways.

"Koany/speak in Koans" was a reference to Koan like or Koan sounding words. Nobody owns the Koans.

(I use one of my post quota to make that point) :-)

Gassho J

Ps - I personally will never refer to Mr. Shimano the predator and abuser as "Roshi". Serial assault and psychological/sexual abuse of students, I will denigrate. Others, of course, may call him what they will.
Last edited by jundocohen on Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:05 am, edited 3 times in total.
Teacher at Treeleaf Zendo, a Soto Zen Sangha, an online practice place for folks who cannot commute to a Zen Center due to health, living in remote areas, work or family needs. The focus is Shikantaza 'Just Sitting' Zazen http://www.treeleaf.org

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boda
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by boda » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:40 am

jundocohen wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:16 am
Please do not denigrate others and their ways.
Indeed, the koany denigrates the Rinzai way.

ol' spikey

Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by ol' spikey » Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:59 am

bodhi wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:40 am
jundocohen wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:16 am
Please do not denigrate others and their ways.
Indeed, the koany denigrates the Rinzai way.
The "y" at the end of "koany" is a diminutive affix.

There is more to say about the Rinzai way, and why I agree with your opinion, but it is not healthy for me, in general, to seek argument with another right now.

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jundocohen
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Re: How is Zen Space doing - a poll for all members, active, inactive, lurkers, come one, come all!

Post by jundocohen » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:23 am

ol' spikey wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:59 am
bodhi wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:40 am
jundocohen wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:16 am
Please do not denigrate others and their ways.
Indeed, the koany denigrates the Rinzai way.
The "y" at the end of "koany" is a diminutive affix.

There is more to say about the Rinzai way, and why I agree with your opinion, but it is not healthy for me, in general, to seek argument with another right now.
Here, a grammar lesson for you. Zen lessons and English lessons in one.
a native English suffix of adjectives meaning “characterized by or inclined to” the substance or action of the word or stem to which the suffix is attached:juicy; grouchy; rumbly; dreamy.Sometimes used to mean “allowing, fostering, or bringing about” the specified action:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/-y

A way beyond words and letters, yet bound by the rules of good grammar.
Teacher at Treeleaf Zendo, a Soto Zen Sangha, an online practice place for folks who cannot commute to a Zen Center due to health, living in remote areas, work or family needs. The focus is Shikantaza 'Just Sitting' Zazen http://www.treeleaf.org

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