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Crystal
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:40 pm

Re: Dear Members

Post by Crystal » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:10 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:12 pm

I hope to goodness that Jundo Roshi's health is better, and is now strong, and that he and his family have a fine year in 2019, and beyond.
I'll second that, Joe. _/|\_


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michaeljc
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:15 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Dear Members

Post by michaeljc » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:00 am

I haven't logged on here for a while. Haven't been sitting so nothing worthwhile to say. No sitting = no Zen

Anyway - up comes this thread. Wow - I was shocked

Mind, there are clubs for every rank in the military for good reason

Though, I always valued teachers' input - not because they were teachers but because they were people on a particular path. A fascinating path.

I am not like some here who pay homage to a teacher just because they are a teacher. Just like in Catholicism there are wolves in habits and worse - career teachers. I know who I consider to be teachers and who I don't

Whatever, a Zen forum that bans teachers from contributing as teachers feels most odd - kind of like alcohol-free wine. I don't partake of that

The real question that everyone is avoiding is: who acted like teachers and who did not? A true teacher is not a provocative attention-seeking grand-stander (IMO). Not wanting to moderate "teachers"? Sorry, it comes with the territory

My prediction - the new structure won't work any better than the last, maybe even worse. Why? its the tide sillies! Rejoice in it, it is life

Cheers All

M

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Larry
Posts: 674
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:17 am

Re: Dear Members

Post by Larry » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 am

michaeljc wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:00 am
Rejoice in it, it is life
:namaste:

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desert_woodworker
Posts: 1212
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:20 am
Location: Southern Arizona desert, USA

Re: Dear Members

Post by desert_woodworker » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:24 pm

Crystal, thanks,
Crystal wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:10 pm
desert_woodworker wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:12 pm
I hope to goodness that Jundo Roshi's health is better, and is now strong, and that he and his family have a fine year in 2019, and beyond.
I'll second that, Joe. _/|\_
I'm so glad that our brother Jundo came to realize that I am not countering him or criticizing him, and that I am only dubious and rightfully (...by my lights... ) skeptical about certain points in the pure doctrine of Soto Zen Buddhism as known primarily in Japan.

I had no such reservations about T'sao Tung Ch'an Buddhism in China, primarily because the Japanese Zen figure "Dogen" was not ever yet involved (he came later, to reform Zen practice and Zen institutions as he knew them in his homeland of Japan, not in China, where all was original). I saw (as I see it... ), and still see, that much of what's called "Soto" Zen Buddhism is "Dogen-ism". I am not a Japanese Soto-insider, though, and probably this is WHY I can say such a thing without compunction. My Ch'an master was heir to both T'sao Tung and Lin-Chi wings of Ch'an, and could (and did!) teach in both ways, as he felt a student required. Remarkable!, wonderful, compassionate, and ...well, I am just too lucky a young fellow.

Jundo Roshi wrote later, near the time of his banning, that he saw I was a person "with a heart of gold". Dunno, but OK. We've been on the best terms since, ...and, I maintain, even earlier, at least from my point of view.

Hail! ;)

New Year's best wishes,

--Joe
Last edited by desert_woodworker on Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fuki
Posts: 1989
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: Dear Members

Post by fuki » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:38 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:24 pm
Jundo Roshi wrote later, near the time of his banning, that he saw I was a person "with a heart of gold". Dunno, but OK. We've been on the best terms since, ...and, I maintain, even earlier, at least from my point of view.
I never saw anyone who didn't have a "heart of gold", even the most demonic deluded minds do. But in a Buddhist context "heart of gold" might be translated as bodhicittotpāda or "arising bodhicitta" hence p(P)ractise is endless.

People just have problems with his non-confirmative "doubts" regarding "rebirth" and other textual references/concepts.
Which I never understood since all talks about rebirth or anything in Buddhadharma is expedient means, why would anything be examined as "it is so" or "it is not so" but that's just me. He never tried to manipulate anyone into "thinking like him"
So much fear involved, hence we grasp and turn away.
:107:
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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desert_woodworker
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Location: Southern Arizona desert, USA

Re: Dear Members

Post by desert_woodworker » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:11 pm

fuki wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:38 pm
I never saw anyone who didn't have a "heart of gold", even the most demonic deluded minds do.
Off topic, but Neil Young sings a good song about it, included on his "Harvest" LP record album released February 1, 1972. ;) Cheers, --Joe

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Crystal
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:40 pm

Re: Dear Members

Post by Crystal » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:23 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:11 pm
fuki wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:38 pm
I never saw anyone who didn't have a "heart of gold", even the most demonic deluded minds do.
Off topic, but Neil Young sings a good song about it, included on his "Harvest" LP record album released February 1, 1972. ;) Cheers, --Joe




.
Last edited by Crystal on Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fuki
Posts: 1989
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: Dear Members

Post by fuki » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:30 pm

heart of gold wrote: I crossed the ocean for a heart of gold
I've been in my mind, it's such a fine line
so close, yet the chasm is so wide...
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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Larry
Posts: 674
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:17 am

Re: Dear Members

Post by Larry » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:46 pm

Larry wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:28 pm
For people missing Meido, in addition to Dharma Wheel, he often posts on the "Zen Dialogue" Facebook forum. And for people missing Jundo, apart from Treeleaf, he posts daily on the "Soto Zen Buddhism" Facebook forum.

Sorry for any upset caused by mention of Jundo :D
Jundo just started posting on Zen Dialogue, for the first time, three hours ago. Maybe he still lurks around these parts :D

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Enver M.
Posts: 347
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Ankara, turkey

Re: Dear Members

Post by Enver M. » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:40 pm

A person who you don't like
is saying -only one thing to you (in real)
and that is
follow me.

(that's all)
larry
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

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Enver M.
Posts: 347
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Location: Ankara, turkey

Re: Dear Members

Post by Enver M. » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:16 am

I have been thinking for more than 15 years.Instead of this, if i have had done meditation for 6 years like the Buddha did, i would have been get enlightened already many times.


ps: That's why teachers are necessary
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

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