Zen or nonzense

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fuki
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Re: Zen or nonzense

Post by fuki » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:33 am

Clyde, thanks, we're on "one line" then.

I agree with your latest point, all (partly) I'm saying is that the lounge's activity and the Zen's inactivity has little to do with each other, it's just that most identify the present with the past and thus even if you start a "zen discussion" people will fight their personal battles and project it unto the lounge (or whatever they imagine) and zenspace has never really been zenspace, it's always been a transformation of unspent energies of e-sangha/zfi, and that is what scares new ppl or "beginners to Buddhism" to the forum away (the few who ever found this place), not the "lounge talk" or anything else ppl proclaim is the issue. Hence I find your take on things inspirational and fresh, but bare in mind there's always some water under the bridge, which you ofcourse (should) can disregard, nevertheless don't fall for the tales of old and other hearsay.

as an example, if I dont visit zenspace for a day,week,month etc there's hardly any "zen discussion" activity, so whenever online the lounge is where chatter between friends happens, it is not that one is exchanged for the other, there's simply hardly any "zen discussion" activity on here so those who use the lounge as an excuse, I call BS on, that's all. So the ratio is not the issue, for without lounge talk, there wouldn't be more "zen discussion" topics. in other words it's no distraction, and those who proclaim a war on so called distractions, we'll let them, nothing to do with zen to me, that itself is the very distraction/demon-stration.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Zen or nonzense

Post by desert_woodworker » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:52 am

I say let's do the experiment.

Scientist, here. Let's make this evidence-based.

If it takes a week or a month or a quarter to generate good discussion and "traffic" in the key area(s), then that is just great, as an investment, and as an expenditure of seed-corn (patience; and of our own farming effort, those who have a plow in the ground).

Let the "Lounge" dissolve into petals of pure Dharma gold, in the Zen Buddhist areas. Or, what are the areas?

ZFI had so many areas that it made my head spin. I'm for simplicity, only because things are simple. Some say "not", but that's only because of picking-and-choosing.

Is this a Zen-Buddhist inspired discussion forum, or not?

If we know how to stick to the topic, we'll also know how to mix it up, to keep on-topic.

(no, I won't "explain" that. :lol: )

Lotsa love to ever'body,

and with thanks,

Molte grazie,

--Giuseppe
Last edited by desert_woodworker on Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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fuki
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Re: Zen or nonzense

Post by fuki » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:59 am

desert_woodworker wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:52 am
I say let's do the experiment.

Scientist, here. Let's make this evidence-based.
Agreed, though I've seen these experiments since 2006 on the interweb, let it have some 'genuine objective data' (though I could write a book about it, as I have all sentient beings tendencies and data right here)
ZFI had so many areas that it made my head spin. I'm for simplicity, only because things are simple. Some say "not", but that's only because of picking-and-choosing.
Be glad you're not on facebook discussions Joe, other then that layout makes your head spin ( I prefer the old-style forum) the latest idea of 90% of the "Buddhists" there is that "morality" is not a part of Zen Buddhism, be glad about it, you'd find this little inactive place called zenspace a gem perhaps ;)
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Zen or nonzense

Post by desert_woodworker » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:01 am

Nah, right, Fuk-ster: I don't use that technology/service. Who has time?, I'm retired. --Joe

ps ( I DO find this Space a Gem. Its polishing is in progress, and I hope it always will be. Long-life!, Zen Space Forum. And its Members... ). Strong practice, -J.

pps Clyde, I think I'll take a week or two off from posting: I think Meido Roshi was/is right, about posting too often, and too much (I don't mind if everyone agrees ;) ). I'm not going anywhere, and may keep reading from the sidelines in the next week(s), but won't post. I hope our topics bolster and swell, and I hope that good Dharmic-relations continue, and, moreover, diversify. Kudos!! Take good care of yourself, -J.

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fuki
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Re: Zen or nonzense

Post by fuki » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:36 am

desert_woodworker wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:01 am

pps Clyde, I think I'll take a week or two off from posting: I think Meido Roshi was/is right, about posting too often, and too much (I don't mind if everyone agrees ;) ). I'm not going anywhere, and may keep reading from the sidelines in the next week(s), but won't post.
I'm "disappointed" there, Joe.

How many of us said to leave, as any "leaving" is still a step in consciousness, sure you're not going anywhere but still announcing you won't post for a week or two, ah, let me scratch you of the "non-dwelling" list. Looking foward to your discipline (unlike "others") ;)

Just joking my friend, which Clyde might delete since it's "off-topic" ah so much irony here for those willing to gather information from interpretation upon perception, :111:
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

Seeker242
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Re: Zen or nonzense

Post by Seeker242 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:17 pm

clyde wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:42 pm

Zen Space should not be a music video site, a photo gallery, or merely a place where “Anything at all goes here.” In Buddhist terms, it’s idle chatter.

As it is, the Lounge represents over 50% of all posts and some members spend most (50-70%!) of their time and posts in the Lounge. And this is expressly why some long-time Zen students no longer participate here.

Personally, I’d rather be a member of a small forum that discusses the Zen Way than be involved in a large group that discusses nonzense.

Those are my thoughts.
What are your thoughts on this?
One of the reasons why I visit the site almost every day, but still don't actually participate very much.

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Fruitzilla
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Re: Zen or nonzense

Post by Fruitzilla » Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:07 pm

Seeker242 wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:17 pm
clyde wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:42 pm

Zen Space should not be a music video site, a photo gallery, or merely a place where “Anything at all goes here.” In Buddhist terms, it’s idle chatter.

As it is, the Lounge represents over 50% of all posts and some members spend most (50-70%!) of their time and posts in the Lounge. And this is expressly why some long-time Zen students no longer participate here.

Personally, I’d rather be a member of a small forum that discusses the Zen Way than be involved in a large group that discusses nonzense.

Those are my thoughts.
What are your thoughts on this?
One of the reasons why I visit the site almost every day, but still don't actually participate very much.
Honestly, I find this strange.

You'll only see the Lounge posts if you go to active topics of visit the forum. If you visit the main page, you'll only see the "serious" posts. And the post count on the site is low enough you'll never need to go to active topics.

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Dan74
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Re: Zen or nonzense

Post by Dan74 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:12 pm

I think I've mentioned my views of what makes a good forum a number of times, so I feel I shouldn't really be taking more air, other than say that whatever vision clyde has, I hope he is more resolute than I had been in mine.

Looking back, I had felt like an impostor or at least an imposition on many regulars here and held back from any serious changes. I hope that clyde is not prone to such hangups.


_/|\_
Not Site Admin any longer, despite what it says.

Seeker242
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Re: Zen or nonzense

Post by Seeker242 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:16 pm

Fruitzilla wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:07 pm

Honestly, I find this strange.

You'll only see the Lounge posts if you go to active topics of visit the forum. If you visit the main page, you'll only see the "serious" posts. And the post count on the site is low enough you'll never need to go to active topics.
I always view posts from "new posts" selection in quick links, which doesn't limit particular categories, etc.

Kaya

Re: Zen or nonzense

Post by Kaya » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:01 pm

In my unscientific review of the Music thread (first and last pages), every contributor also posted to at least one non-Lounge thread. So everyone is doing the desired thing, and might achieve better balance through reading and perhaps participating more in some other discussions. This can be a benefit to all.

P.S. Musical performance can be practice actualized, in more than one way.

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lindama
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Re: Zen or nonzense

Post by lindama » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:08 pm

this division is non-Sense, a misunderstanding of zen. My teacher took a kinder path, there is nothing that is not zen. Chew on that. Purity is lifeless. Talk becomes gossip in the absence of correct view. More holy wars, they never stop. O the stories we tell.
"You can't disappoint another human being.
And another human being can't disappoint you.

You tell the story of how someone
isn't giving you what you want
and you disappoint yourself."

~ Byron Katie ~

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Enver M.
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Re: Zen or nonzense

Post by Enver M. » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:36 pm

clyde wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:42 pm
Dear members;

Our masthead says,
Zen Space
A Zen Buddhist discussion forum. Zen Space is a free community service run by volunteers to provide an online place to discuss Zen Buddhism and to share our collective knowledge and experience.
That’s what why I joined; that’s why I volunteered.

I get the value of posting music videos, photos, and the Lounge. I’ve posted a few music videos, and a couple of photos, and posted occasionally in the Lounge. I think they’re beneficial . . . when used to create personal connections. But I believe they have been abused by over-use and/or cliquish dialogues.

Zen Space should not be a music video site, a photo gallery, or merely a place where “Anything at all goes here.” In Buddhist terms, it’s idle chatter.

As it is, the Lounge represents over 50% of all posts and some members spend most (50-70%!) of their time and posts in the Lounge. And this is expressly why some long-time Zen students no longer participate here.

Personally, I’d rather be a member of a small forum that discusses the Zen Way than be involved in a large group that discusses nonzense.

Those are my thoughts.
What are your thoughts on this?

If the knowers speak we will listen -
no need for mathematic !!!
:waving:

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Fruitzilla
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Re: Zen or nonzense

Post by Fruitzilla » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:14 am

Seeker242 wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:16 pm
Fruitzilla wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:07 pm

Honestly, I find this strange.

You'll only see the Lounge posts if you go to active topics of visit the forum. If you visit the main page, you'll only see the "serious" posts. And the post count on the site is low enough you'll never need to go to active topics.
I always view posts from "new posts" selection in quick links, which doesn't limit particular categories, etc.
Well, the only stuff which it limits, is the stuff that prevents you from participating. That's still somewhat strange to me, but to each his own.

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Fruitzilla
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Re: Zen or nonzense

Post by Fruitzilla » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:18 am

lindama wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:08 pm
this division is non-Sense, a misunderstanding of zen. My teacher took a kinder path, there is nothing that is not zen. Chew on that. Purity is lifeless. Talk becomes gossip in the absence of correct view. More holy wars, they never stop. O the stories we tell.
"You can't disappoint another human being.
And another human being can't disappoint you.

You tell the story of how someone
isn't giving you what you want
and you disappoint yourself."

~ Byron Katie ~
I largely agree with this, as I do with fuki's idea of letting the forum find it's own way without too much interference.
But we'll see where it goes. I am glad we're having a forum-wide conversation in any case!

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clyde
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Re: Zen or nonzense

Post by clyde » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:37 am

lindama wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:08 pm
this division is non-Sense, a misunderstanding of zen. My teacher took a kinder path, there is nothing that is not zen. Chew on that. Purity is lifeless. Talk becomes gossip in the absence of correct view. More holy wars, they never stop. O the stories we tell.
I did “chew on that”.

For a Zen forum, a discussion board on the Internet, “Zen” is one of the three major Buddhist traditions with a long history, practices and teachings, which taken together are the Zen Way.

It can be said that Zen is essentially a “direct pointing” and in the absolute sense anything and everything is or can be a pointer, but the Zen Way is not anything and everything.

This is a Zen forum. Let’s focus on the Zen Way.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

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Mason
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Re: Zen or nonzense

Post by Mason » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:46 am

I just wanted to throw my two-cents into the mix.

Coming from a past few difficult months in my life-drama, the Lounge area has been like nectar for my wounds. It feels to me like making friends who, in some sense or another, are comrades in dharma and comrades in play. Laughing and playing with friends is sometimes great medicine for those in pain, like myself. That's just something to consider - I'm sure, as my life drama flows on, so I will mature with age and become more conservative and respectful of the Zen work that we're trying to do here.

As Emma Goldman said,

If I can't dance, it's not my revolution!
If I can't dance, I don't want your revolution!
If I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution.
A revolution without dancing is not a revolution worth having.
If there won't be dancing at the revolution, I'm not coming.

:559:
I asked Chow Chow if I have any Buddha-nature left. He told me to wait.

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Enver M.
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Re: Zen or nonzense

Post by Enver M. » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:08 pm

Mason, buddy..Welcome!!! :waving:

you, yourself is a cure for many sickness!!
no need for mathematic !!!
:waving:

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clyde
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Re: Zen or nonzense

Post by clyde » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:14 pm

Mason; Well said. Thank you for sharing.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

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fuki
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Re: Zen or nonzense

Post by fuki » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:45 am

Mason wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:46 am
I just wanted to throw my two-cents into the mix.

Coming from a past few difficult months in my life-drama, the Lounge area has been like nectar for my wounds. It feels to me like making friends who, in some sense or another, are comrades in dharma and comrades in play. Laughing and playing with friends is sometimes great medicine for those in pain, like myself. That's just something to consider - I'm sure, as my life drama flows on, so I will mature with age and become more conservative and respectful of the Zen work that we're trying to do here.

As Emma Goldman said,

If I can't dance, it's not my revolution!
If I can't dance, I don't want your revolution!
If I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution.
A revolution without dancing is not a revolution worth having.
If there won't be dancing at the revolution, I'm not coming.

:559:
Thanks Mason, I'm very happy you mention this, most people are oblivious to the functioning of nonzense :111: :115:
As I always say, you never know what is "zen" or helpful or what not, so don't judge a lounge by it's 'content' to soon (nor the cover)
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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Larry
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Re: Zen or nonzense

Post by Larry » Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:25 pm

:560:

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