fuki,fuki wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:45 pmFor me it's like a deep sleep, all pitch blackness with no world to conceive of nor notion of there not being a world.guo gu wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:29 pmwayfarer,
there are many samadhi states... shallower ones feel like rapture, which is really the beginning of the ending the state, some are not rapturous. shallower ones there's awareness of experiencing it. the deeper one goes the fewer faculties of perception function.
It's where there's no history of a world, of a fuki, nor knowledge of there ever being one.
I'm not sure what kind of Samadhi that is, I did hear there was still a self though (as GG told me)
But I am interested in what you say on this Guo Gu, I have not experienced this but could you shed your light on it?
my experience with samadhi is limited. but from experience, i know that samadhi is not sleepy or darkness or loss of consciousness, there should be clarity. if one experiences pitch blackness, at best it's loosing consciousness or resting; worse, it's what chan calls "dwelling in the ghost cave on the dark side of the mountain" (where sun don't ever shine)--for years i was stuck in this state. very dangerous because it's addictive and kills one's wisdom life.
the clarity in different states of samadhi are usually accompanied by particular psychosomatic de-conditioning states (sense organs inoperable/loosing functioning etc-- hence, seeing colors, experiencing spaciousness, infinite light, expansive consciousness, purity, etc). there is, however, a samadhi state that is "without content" a kinda, perfect equipoise where temporarily afflictions are absent. the buddha supposedly entered nirvana from this samadhi/jhana.
btw, generally speaking, these samadhi states usually for novices last for a day or so, fading in and out in the beginning going in and coming out of it in the end, while the middle abiding part maybe several hours. sometimes deeper ones lasting for days (all of these are while sitting). when i was a boy my first teacher, master guangqin, was able to enter in these states for weeks on end. anything less than a day in these samadhi states would most likely be loosing consciousness or the mind resting.
experientially, there would be no sense of time in samadhi, so there's no sense of going in or coming out (i'm only using these terms out of convenience). if one senses going "in" or coming "out" then that's not samadhi--maybe pre-samadhi rapture states--because experientially not even a mind exists; the clarity (and it's accompanying states) completely takes over--there's no separation like wayfarer says there isn't "experience" and the experiencer.
all that said, these sort of samadhi are not necessary to realize (glimpses of) awakening in chan/seon/zen. in fact, my teacher master sheng yen used to warn us not to cultivate them before seeing self-nature, less one becomes easily attached to them. there is self in all of these states. however, those with samadhi powers generally realize awakening with lasting tranformative effect (like vexations don't ever arise or very few vexations would arise for the rest of one's life if one continues to practice)--these are rare. most often, after seeing self-nature, one nourishes it by going into solitary retreat--in other words, cultivating samadhi. having seen self-nature, one wouldn't attach to those states writ large. my experiences with samadhi mostly dates back to the mid-90s, in this context, under my teacher's close watch and were limited.
ppl are fascinated with samadhi or jhana states. so having read books and descriptions on it, it's easy to imagine one is experiencing them or seek after them. in reality they are very rare and achievable only under good guidance of a qualified teacher who can identify what's what, lest it would be like the blind leading the blind. to be safe, it's best to just practice without seeking anything--just practice, and not be captivated by anything.