Beginners Question

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Meido
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Re: Beginners Question

Post by Meido » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:17 am

However it seems to manifest, dissatisfaction or dis-ease of all kinds has the same root. In that way, they are all right reasons.

The most ripe student, however, is one that has come to suspect the truth: that what people commonly call "satisfaction" or "comfort" doesn't in fact exist at all.

~ Meido
The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice
Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org
Madison, WI Rinzai Zen Community [機山龍源寺] - http://www.madisonrinzaizen.org
The Rinzai Zen Community - http://www.rinzaizen.org

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[james]
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Re: Beginners Question

Post by [james] » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:24 pm

Meido wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:17 am
However it seems to manifest, dissatisfaction or dis-ease of all kinds has the same root. In that way, they are all right reasons.

The most ripe student, however, is one that has come to suspect the truth: that what people commonly call "satisfaction" or "comfort" doesn't in fact exist at all.

~ Meido
Your words take me back to my late teen years when I was immersed in a profound and unfocused hunger that couldn’t be satisfied by anything that I was able create for myself, nor by any of the cultural options available to me at that time. Eventually, before I drifted into destructive “solutions”, I stumbled upon Buddhism and, soon after that, Zen Buddhism.

I am always thankful to be reminded of those years and the conditions and circumstances of my life then and now that brought me to this path and continue to nudge and push me along.

For me, “the right word describing the unsatifactoriness of the proper kind” is dukkha.

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Meido
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Re: Beginners Question

Post by Meido » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:32 pm

James, our experiences are similar in that regard (well, I might still have stumbled into destructive habits, but it's a work in progress).
[james] wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:24 pm
For me, “the right word describing the unsatifactoriness of the proper kind” is dukkha.
Exactly. That is why I answered as I did.

Anyone could benefit from Dharma practice, I think, regardless of what other needs they might have. But, if someone can start to see that there is no moment of human life that is ever apart from the 8 hardships...

1. birth
2. old age
3. sickness
4. death
5. painful situations
6. inability to hold on to what is desired
7. frustration of not getting what one is desired
8. general anxiety or dissatisfaction, that pervades even the most fortunate life

...in other words, that there is no security at all in samsaric existence, then that person is really fortunate, and very ready. Furthermore, if such a person actually shows up to a Zen place - or, stumbles upon a Zen forum! - it is absolutely certain beyond any doubt that such a one has sufficiently deep roots, a connection to Zen, and is highly qualified for the path.

(So, congratulations everyone! You all made the A-list.)

~ Meido
The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice
Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org
Madison, WI Rinzai Zen Community [機山龍源寺] - http://www.madisonrinzaizen.org
The Rinzai Zen Community - http://www.rinzaizen.org

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jundocohen
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Re: Beginners Question

Post by jundocohen » Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:18 pm

Dogen's Practice-Enlightenment: One is already full from the start, and there is never an ounce of hunger in this world. Nevertheless, eat carefully and with discretion, not in excess or under need.

Big S Satisfaction and and Big C Comfort totally are ... right in/as/beyond all small human satisfactions or dissatisfactions, comforts and discomforts.

(I know this because I have cancer right now, something I will announce publicly soon and talk about more. It is a real dissatisfaction and discomfort, yet not in the least). There are no 8 hardships, right at the heart of the 8 hardships.

Gassho, Jundo
Teacher at Treeleaf Zendo, a Soto Zen Sangha, an online practice place for folks who cannot commute to a Zen Center due to health, living in remote areas, work or family needs. The focus is Shikantaza 'Just Sitting' Zazen http://www.treeleaf.org

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Dan74
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Re: Beginners Question

Post by Dan74 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:29 pm

Wishing you all the best with the treatment, Jundo.

_/|\_

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[james]
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Re: Beginners Question

Post by [james] » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:58 pm

jundocohen wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:18 pm
Dogen's Practice-Enlightenment: One is already full from the start, and there is never an ounce of hunger in this world. Nevertheless, eat carefully and with discretion, not in excess or under need.
....
There are no 8 hardships, right at the heart of the 8 hardships.
I’ve not yet met anyone who began a Zen practice because they are feeling fine. Have you? Though there is truth and merit in what you say, how do your words encourage, give courage to, the questioning beginner.

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Beginners Question

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:59 pm

jundo Roshi wrote: (I know this because I have cancer right now, ...
I'm sorry, Jundo, and I hope treatment is strong, not too icky, and is completely successful.

I want to thank you for the fantastically fine and helpful book, A HEART TO HEART CHAT ON BUDDHISM WITH OLD MASTER GUDO, which you translated to English (c. 2004), and which I've had for 2 1/2 months, and counting.

Love and Gassho,

--Joe

jundo_Roshi_transl.jpg
(Wonderful translation and teaching)
jundo_Roshi_transl.jpg (37.72 KiB) Viewed 784 times
"Ignorance is to be ignorant of one's original mind." - Ma Tsu

"Liberation is awakening to one's original nature." - Ma Tsu

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[james]
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Re: Beginners Question

Post by [james] » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:00 am

jundocohen wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:18 pm
(I know this because I have cancer right now, something I will announce publicly soon and talk about more. It is a real dissatisfaction and discomfort, yet not in the least). There are no 8 hardships, right at the heart of the 8 hardships.
If you’re willing perhaps a thread here. I’ve recently had cancer and would be interested in what you have to say and to what anyone else here might wish to contribute.

james

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jundocohen
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Re: Beginners Question

Post by jundocohen » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:06 am

[james] wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:58 pm
jundocohen wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:18 pm
Dogen's Practice-Enlightenment: One is already full from the start, and there is never an ounce of hunger in this world. Nevertheless, eat carefully and with discretion, not in excess or under need.
....
There are no 8 hardships, right at the heart of the 8 hardships.
I’ve not yet met anyone who began a Zen practice because they are feeling fine. Have you? Though there is truth and merit in what you say, how do your words encourage, give courage to, the questioning beginner.
I say to the beginner that they may be experiencing suffering, but that is mind games, delusion and confusion, and not the only way to experience life. There is a face (Original Face! :D ) beyond all division and suffering, and our Practice let's us know that such has always been present too. So, keep Practicing and find out for oneself.

I will start a cancer thread soon, with videos and all kinds of fun as I get ready for my big hospitalization in a week or so. Off to talk to the anesthesiologist now for surgery planning, and then the follow-up which may be chemo and/or radiation. I am good with it all, although it really sucks sometimes. I will have have a lot to say on approaching such times when the Zen really hits the fan, and I will also have some criticisms of how some in the Zen world sometimes handle such times (I was recently told by a few people that my time in hospital, naked and facing the real "life and death is the great matter," getting through with Chanting Heart Sutra, Dogen and Sitting (or as the body allows) for weeks or months, surrounded by my Sangha, is not a "real Zen Ango". Zen priests told me this. I will have some comments on why they are full of what hits the fan.)

Gassho, Jundo
Teacher at Treeleaf Zendo, a Soto Zen Sangha, an online practice place for folks who cannot commute to a Zen Center due to health, living in remote areas, work or family needs. The focus is Shikantaza 'Just Sitting' Zazen http://www.treeleaf.org

Spike
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Re: Beginners Question

Post by Spike » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:05 am

Best wishes for your health from a fellow cancer (prostate) fighter. Just fight.

Spike
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Re: Beginners Question

Post by Spike » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:43 am

Got the message(s). Know what to do now to protect my health.

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Great Sage EofH
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Re: Beginners Question

Post by Great Sage EofH » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:22 am

- samsara is paired with sunyata -

- along with the temporal, dependent-upon-conditions, variable, impermanent, unstable, etc. is the other -

- paired with, because every phenomenon has both -

- that which is empty of those characteristics - non-temporal, independent-of-conditions, invariable, not-impermanent, not unstable -

everything is balanced in the Middle Way

and it would not matter to us at all, except the Mind/Heart - as all things - touches on Sunyata - as well as Samsara

when i understood this it explained the long silence i was getting on all my questions

in the Zen fashion of the Way Things Are

Thus i Learned to Shut My Mouth
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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fuki
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Re: Beginners Question

Post by fuki » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:00 pm

Meido wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:17 am
The most ripe student, however, is one that has come to suspect the truth: that what people commonly call "satisfaction" or "comfort" doesn't in fact exist at all.

~ Meido
True, I prefer to say that whatever arises is momentary and arises due to conditions and whatever fantasy the conditioned mind adds to perception is just that, a temporary concept devoid of any reality. Since it has no stamp of reality there is also no loophole of narrative to get stuck in by which the fabricated personality (another interpretation upon perception) tries to grasp and avoid. What we think we are in fact doesn't exist at all too. So why do we waste so much time analyzing the branches? I have no issues with the illusion of satisfaction, I know it's temporary and enjoy it if it happens, not something to chase after or avoid, but everything transient is like this. In fact nothing ever happens, nor ever did or ever will. To experience is to dream. :117:
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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