Was the Buddha a Bodhisattva?

Discussion of Zen Buddhism.
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clyde
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Was the Buddha a Bodhisattva?

Post by clyde » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:19 pm

I was wondering . . .

As I understand, Bodhisattvas are reborn and the Buddha was a non-returner;
so it would seem to follow that the Buddha was no Bodhisattva.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”

Spike
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Re: Was the Buddha a Bodhisattva?

Post by Spike » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:58 pm

Perhaps he was a bodhisattva until he was reborn as buddha. His realization occurring in his rebirth.

Not necessarily physical rebirth.

"Und so long du das nicht hast,
dieses Stirb und Werde . . . "

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Re: Was the Buddha a Bodhisattva?

Post by avisitor » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:32 pm

clyde wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:19 pm
As I understand, Bodhisattvas are reborn and the Buddha was a non-returner;
so it would seem to follow that the Buddha was no Bodhisattva.
Internet dictionary says, ...
A Bodhisattva is a person who is able to reach nirvana but delays doing so out of compassion in order to save suffering beings.

Whether he was or not is a matter for scholars and philosophers
People, who care more about the circumstances of the Buddha's life rather than the teachings, can discuss this to no end.
Sort of like looking at the Buddha's hand rather than what he has to offer.

But, as this is a discussion forum, I will vote that he was.
He delayed nirvana as much as he could .. then left.

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Re: Was the Buddha a Bodhisattva?

Post by narhwal90 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:59 am

The Lotus Sutra makes some pertinent points, depending on how it is accepted I suppose.

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Re: Was the Buddha a Bodhisattva?

Post by desert_woodworker » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:17 am

He, "Buddha", may not have qualified by 2019 standards as a Bodhisattva (oh?), but the fact that he came down the hill and began to teach is close enuf to Bodhisattva-mentality to make us all wonder, ...eh?

He could not help himself. And, who could?

Just awaken: see, then, what you "want" to do.

:namaste:

--Joe

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clyde
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Re: Was the Buddha a Bodhisattva?

Post by clyde » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:29 am

narhwal90 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:59 am
The Lotus Sutra makes some pertinent points, depending on how it is accepted I suppose.
I’m only slightly familiar with the Lotus Sutra, so I’m wondering what points in the Lotus Sutra are you referring to?
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”

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clyde
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Re: Was the Buddha a Bodhisattva?

Post by clyde » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:30 am

Joe; Yes, it took me a long while to see and admire that after awakening the Buddha formed a sangha and taught for the rest of his life.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”

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Nothing
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Re: Was the Buddha a Bodhisattva?

Post by Nothing » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:20 am

He was teaching and delivering sentients beings from the time of his awakening until his passing into Nirvana, so he was a Boddhisatva imo.

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Re: Was the Buddha a Bodhisattva?

Post by fuki » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:59 am

clyde wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:19 pm
I was wondering . . .

As I understand, Bodhisattvas are reborn and the Buddha was a non-returner;
so it would seem to follow that the Buddha was no Bodhisattva.
I enjoyed reading Bhikkhu Bodhi's essay; "Arahants, Buddhas and Bodhisattvas"
https://info-buddhism.com/Arahants-Budd ... Bodhi.html
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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Crystal
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Re: Was the Buddha a Bodhisattva?

Post by Crystal » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:51 pm

.

Between Arhat and Bodhisattva by Ajahn Amaro might also be of interest:


https://www.lionsroar.com/between-arhat ... dhisattva/


_/|\_


.

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Re: Was the Buddha a Bodhisattva?

Post by bukowski » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:45 pm

Spike beat me to it!

B. :namaste:

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Was the Buddha a Bodhisattva?

Post by loves' the unjust » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:03 pm

Crystal wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:51 pm
.

Between Arhat and Bodhisattva by Ajahn Amaro might also be of interest:


https://www.lionsroar.com/between-arhat ... dhisattva/


_/|\_
Hello Crystal,

always appreciate your posts.

"The Buddha taught meditation as an essential tool to achieve liberation from suffering."

here the significance of liberation.
where there is liberation there is not a single attachment to anything.quite sensible.


_/\_
cooper

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Was the Buddha a Bodhisattva?

Post by loves' the unjust » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:16 pm

so, when we learn and begin to forget or disregard we begin to learn.some friends think not so!
cooper

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Re: Was the Buddha a Bodhisattva?

Post by narhwal90 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:44 pm

clyde wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:29 am
narhwal90 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:59 am
The Lotus Sutra makes some pertinent points, depending on how it is accepted I suppose.
I’m only slightly familiar with the Lotus Sutra, so I’m wondering what points in the Lotus Sutra are you referring to?
Below is an excerpt from Chapter 16 "Lifetime of the Tathagata" aka "Juryo", from the BDK translation. Juryo contains the most prominent of the claims & is highly valued in Nichiren traditions. Elsewhere there are elaborations and clarifications, and a chapter of instructions as to conduct of the bodhisattva.

The Buddha said: “I am just like this. Since I became a buddha, immeasurable, limitless, hundreds of thousands of myriads of koṭis of
nayutas of incalculable kalpas have passed. Though for the sake of sentient beings, I use skillful means and say that I will enter parinirvāṇa,
there is no one who could rightly say that I am guilty of falsehood.”

Thereupon the Bhagavat, wanting to elaborate on the meaning of thisfurther, spoke these verses:

Since I attained buddhahood, Immeasurable hundreds of thousands of myriads
Of koṭis of incalculable kalpas have passed.
I have been constantly teaching the Dharma,
Through these immeasurable kalpas,
Leading and inspiring Innumerable
koṭis of sentient beings
And enabling them to enter the buddha path.
Using skillful means I have manifested the state of nirvana
To bring sentient beings to this path;
Yet I have not actually entered nirvana,
But continually abide here expounding the Dharma.
Although I am always among these erring beings,
With my transcendent powers,
I prevent them from seeing me.
The sentient beings,
Seeing me enter perfect extinction
Earnestly revere my relics
And, filled with longing,
Yearn for me.
When the sentient beings become
Sincere, mild, and receptive,
And, wanting wholeheartedly to meet the Buddha,
Are willing to give unsparingly
Of their bodies and lives,
Then I, together with the sangha,
Will appear on Mount Gṛdhrakūṭa.
I will declare this to sentient beings:
Although I am always here without extinction,
Through the power of skillful means
I manifest extinction and nonextinction.
If there are any sentient beings in other worlds
Who respect and believe in me,
I will also teach them the highest Dharma.
Not knowing this, you only think
That I have entered parinirvāṇa.

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Re: Was the Buddha a Bodhisattva?

Post by clyde » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:41 pm

Thank you. This seems to sum it up,
Through the power of skillful means
I manifest extinction and nonextinction.
And this answers the question:
Who respect and believe in me,
I will also teach them the highest Dharma.
Not knowing this, you only think
That I have entered parinirvāṇa.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”

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Re: Was the Buddha a Bodhisattva?

Post by Kanji » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:48 am

I've always found the Lotus sutra puzzling as it's so theatrical in comparison to others, the Heart and full awareness of breath my favorites, it always reminds me of a rock concert! Including the backing line up and rising stage :jaw:

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Re: Was the Buddha a Bodhisattva?

Post by narhwal90 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:36 pm

lol, but apparently no backstage passes. I like the one vehicle message.

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Crystal
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Re: Was the Buddha a Bodhisattva?

Post by Crystal » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:10 pm

Kanji wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:48 am
I've always found the Lotus sutra puzzling as it's so theatrical in comparison to others, the Heart and full awareness of breath my favorites, it always reminds me of a rock concert! Including the backing line up and rising stage :jaw:


Yes, I found it quite strange when I tried to read it, it seemed rather like an elaborate fantasy!


_/|\_

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Re: Was the Buddha a Bodhisattva?

Post by Kanji » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:45 am

Crystal wrote:

Yes, I found it quite strange when I tried to read it, it seemed rather like an elaborate fantasy!


_/|\_
I also found it fantastical Crystal.
'World honored one this sutra is inconceivable'. To quote a bemused member of the audience. It has a very power based agenda, I feel. :namaste:

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Re: Was the Buddha a Bodhisattva?

Post by Kanji » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:55 am

narhwal90 wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:36 pm
lol, but apparently no backstage passes. I like the one vehicle message.
Lol, yes, it's very Mahayana vehicle. I don't like the threats, it's very Veda in feel to me, not of man, Superhuman? I've always found the humanity of the Buddha more appealing :namaste:

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