Dosho Port on the Great Question

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KeithA
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Dosho Port on the Great Question

Post by KeithA » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:28 pm

From an excellent post by Dosho Port:

When a question really begins to cook in us, throwing ourselves into it is not a matter of being macho or of discipline, dogma, or technique. It is about living through the heart’s innermost request. And a sincere eagerness to do whatever it takes arises spontaneously from this heart.
Emphasis mine.

This really struck home for me. What a perfect framing of the practice! At the heart of Dukkha, there is yearning to come to terms with the nature of it.

Why do we suffer?

_/|\_
You make, you get.

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Great Sage EofH
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Re: Dosho Port on the Great Question

Post by Great Sage EofH » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:38 pm

The message comes through in spite of the ecclesiastical ruffling of plumage. Maybe kensho is just like that, an ordinary bird until it opens its feathers?
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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KeithA
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Re: Dosho Port on the Great Question

Post by KeithA » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:26 pm

SunWuKong wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:38 pm
The message comes through in spite of the ecclesiastical ruffling of plumage. Maybe kensho is just like that, an ordinary bird until it opens its feathers?
A while ago, I was asked to speak to local Episcopalian Church group about Buddhism. I wasn't raised as a Christian and really had no idea about it. So, I decided to read up about it and look for commonalities. Boy, was I surprised! I didn't know about mystic Christianity, desert fathers, Thomas Merton, centering prayer, etc. Long story short, the part of the quote I emphasized reminded me a little of the words that might be used by a Christian mystic,a tradition I have great respect for.

I also appreciated Dosho Port decoupling the usual language of "being macho or of discipline, dogma, or technique" from the practice. Taking up the Great Question is just doing what is naturally human and indeed, the heart's innermost request.

To my mind, kensho is a confirmation of what's possible. So, we practice and see what happens, with faith and determination.

_/|\_
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

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Meido
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Re: Dosho Port on the Great Question

Post by Meido » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:18 pm

KeithA wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:26 pm
A while ago, I was asked to speak to local Episcopalian Church group about Buddhism. I wasn't raised as a Christian and really had no idea about it. So, I decided to read up about it and look for commonalities. Boy, was I surprised! I didn't know about mystic Christianity, desert fathers, Thomas Merton, centering prayer, etc. Long story short, the part of the quote I emphasized reminded me a little of the words that might be used by a Christian mystic,a tradition I have great respect for.
A little off topic, but I had a similar experience. A few years back I had the chance to participate in an interfaith thing with Catholic folks, discussing Merton and the dialogue between Christian and Buddhist monastics he helped pioneer.

While prepping for that, I came across the story about Thomas Aquinas: one day while celebrating mass, he heard Christ address him, asking him what he desired. Aquinas replied, "Only you, Lord," at which point he arrived at a profound experience. Afterward, when asked to write and teach as usual, he supposedly refused, saying something to the effect of "Everything I have written seems now to me as straw."

This touched me, reminding of course of Tozan, who wrote a treatise on the Diamond Sutra and - packing it on his back - traveled south with the intention of refuting Zen. Upon arriving at his own awakening, though, he burned his treatise, saying that all the profound Buddhist teachings were nothing more than "a single hair in vast space."

~ Meido
The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice
Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org

[Note: not reachable by PM. To get in touch please email through the website above.]

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Wayfarer
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Re: Dosho Port on the Great Question

Post by Wayfarer » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:02 pm

Meido wrote:I came across the story about Thomas Aquinas: one day while celebrating mass, he heard Christ address him, asking him what he desired. Aquinas replied, "Only you, Lord," at which point he arrived at a profound experience. Afterward, when asked to write and teach as usual, he supposedly refused, saying something to the effect of "Everything I have written seems now to me as straw."
I always thought a great Comparative Religion question would be: ‘Nāgārjuna’s religious philosophy commences at this point. Comment.’
The most important thing is not at all important.

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KeithA
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Re: Dosho Port on the Great Question

Post by KeithA » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:17 am

Meido wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:18 pm
KeithA wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:26 pm
A while ago, I was asked to speak to local Episcopalian Church group about Buddhism. I wasn't raised as a Christian and really had no idea about it. So, I decided to read up about it and look for commonalities. Boy, was I surprised! I didn't know about mystic Christianity, desert fathers, Thomas Merton, centering prayer, etc. Long story short, the part of the quote I emphasized reminded me a little of the words that might be used by a Christian mystic,a tradition I have great respect for.
A little off topic, but I had a similar experience. A few years back I had the chance to participate in an interfaith thing with Catholic folks, discussing Merton and the dialogue between Christian and Buddhist monastics he helped pioneer.

While prepping for that, I came across the story about Thomas Aquinas: one day while celebrating mass, he heard Christ address him, asking him what he desired. Aquinas replied, "Only you, Lord," at which point he arrived at a profound experience. Afterward, when asked to write and teach as usual, he supposedly refused, saying something to the effect of "Everything I have written seems now to me as straw."

This touched me, reminding of course of Tozan, who wrote a treatise on the Diamond Sutra and - packing it on his back - traveled south with the intention of refuting Zen. Upon arriving at his own awakening, though, he burned his treatise, saying that all the profound Buddhist teachings were nothing more than "a single hair in vast space."

~ Meido
In the early days of ZFI, there was a guy named PeterB. I really liked him. He was a bit of a curmudgeon and cranky at times, which is a bit like me. :hatsoff:

Anyway, one day he tells us all the he has become an Orthodox Christian monastic. In my head, I was like, how the heck do you go from Zen to that? It was only once I learned about the mystic tradition and early Christianity that I understood.

ah well, we are indeed off topic! :101:
Last edited by KeithA on Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You make, you get.

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Great Sage EofH
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Re: Dosho Port on the Great Question

Post by Great Sage EofH » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:22 am

Oh, the Great Question! Is when you discover all your convenient answers you worked so hard to put together don't fit anymore?
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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KeithA
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Re: Dosho Port on the Great Question

Post by KeithA » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:41 pm

SunWuKong wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:22 am
Oh, the Great Question! Is when you discover all your convenient answers you worked so hard to put together don't fit anymore?
I like that. When I learned about the Four Noble Truths, it was the hook that made me realize I needed the practice. Of course, it took a number of years to exhaust all the convenient answers I had constructed and it's still very much a work in progress. Not sure if this is what you meant, but it's what I heard. :112:
Coming empty-handed, going empty-handed — that is human.
When you are born, where do you come from?
When you die, where do you go?
Life is like a floating cloud which appears.
Death is like a floating cloud which disappears.
The floating cloud itself originally does not exist.
Life and death, coming and going, are also like that.
But there is one thing which always remains clear.
It is pure and clear, not depending on life and death.
Then what is the one pure and clear thing?
_/|\_
You make, you get.

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lobster
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Re: Dosho Port on the Great Question

Post by lobster » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:12 am

KeithA wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:28 pm
Why do we suffer?

_/|\_
Everybody needs a hobby. :115:

And samsara and dukkha and even the hell realms are a fine place to be :109:

They all change.

Work in progress. RIP :117:

What was the question? :108:

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KeithA
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Re: Dosho Port on the Great Question

Post by KeithA » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:52 pm

lobster wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:12 am
KeithA wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:28 pm
Why do we suffer?

_/|\_
Everybody needs a hobby. :115:

And samsara and dukkha and even the hell realms are a fine place to be :109:

They all change.

Work in progress. RIP :117:

What was the question? :108:
haha! Maybe take up a different hobby, ok?

I won't speak for you, but as for me, one more step is necessary. :hatsoff:
It is like a buffalo that passes through a latticed window.
Its head, horns, and four legs all pass through.
Why can't its tail pass through as well?
From here.

_/|\_
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

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fuki
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Re: Dosho Port on the Great Question

Post by fuki » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:59 pm

KeithA wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:52 pm
It is like a buffalo that passes through a latticed window.
Its head, horns, and four legs all pass through.
Why can't its tail pass through as well?
Here's a tail :D
A Sir Bob poem.
[SPOILER]
Metaphors for life are bountiful –
perhaps this one will still serve well:

we seem born into a prison,
each awakens in a cell.

Every cell is different, but
all share a certain something –

for one thing, they’re all jail.

Some will try to beautify their cells,
some will pound their heads against the walls,
some will even carve wise markings there
about how the cell isn’t really a cell,
or even suspect that the Jailer
is not other than themselves.

Who knows how or when or why,
but a key may slide between the bars
some random night that turns just right.

Locks tumble, rusty doors creak,
then furtive footsteps in the dark –

Free!

Most such lucky inmates
beat a fast path to the light,
but now and then an odd one
sticks around to share that key –

for some mysterious reason,
it just feels somehow right.

Once outside in free fresh air,
it may occur to some of them that
they were never really bound, or that
it was all a weird nightmare from which
they’ve mercifully been spared;

while in the yard,
through the prison bards,
the rumor spreads about a key,
and yet for most, this prison life
meanders onward, aimlessly.

Will you be one of those
who won’t look back until
you yourself are free;

or perhaps the rare one who
returns to help, right down
to the last detainee?

In any case,
for those that
dare to contemplate

“Who or what’s to liberate?”

that question,
if they stick with it,
turns out to be the Key.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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KeithA
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Re: Dosho Port on the Great Question

Post by KeithA » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:46 pm

fuki wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:59 pm
KeithA wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:52 pm
It is like a buffalo that passes through a latticed window.
Its head, horns, and four legs all pass through.
Why can't its tail pass through as well?
Here's a tail :D
A Sir Bob poem.
[SPOILER]
Metaphors for life are bountiful –
perhaps this one will still serve well:

we seem born into a prison,
each awakens in a cell.

Every cell is different, but
all share a certain something –

for one thing, they’re all jail.

Some will try to beautify their cells,
some will pound their heads against the walls,
some will even carve wise markings there
about how the cell isn’t really a cell,
or even suspect that the Jailer
is not other than themselves.

Who knows how or when or why,
but a key may slide between the bars
some random night that turns just right.

Locks tumble, rusty doors creak,
then furtive footsteps in the dark –

Free!

Most such lucky inmates
beat a fast path to the light,
but now and then an odd one
sticks around to share that key –

for some mysterious reason,
it just feels somehow right.

Once outside in free fresh air,
it may occur to some of them that
they were never really bound, or that
it was all a weird nightmare from which
they’ve mercifully been spared;

while in the yard,
through the prison bards,
the rumor spreads about a key,
and yet for most, this prison life
meanders onward, aimlessly.

Will you be one of those
who won’t look back until
you yourself are free;

or perhaps the rare one who
returns to help, right down
to the last detainee?

In any case,
for those that
dare to contemplate

“Who or what’s to liberate?”

that question,
if they stick with it,
turns out to be the Key.

mmm....wonderful. :111:
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

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Fruitzilla
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Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

Re: Dosho Port on the Great Question

Post by Fruitzilla » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:56 am

fuki wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:59 pm
KeithA wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:52 pm
It is like a buffalo that passes through a latticed window.
Its head, horns, and four legs all pass through.
Why can't its tail pass through as well?
Here's a tail :D
A Sir Bob poem.
[SPOILER]
Metaphors for life are bountiful –
perhaps this one will still serve well:

we seem born into a prison,
each awakens in a cell.

Every cell is different, but
all share a certain something –

for one thing, they’re all jail.

Some will try to beautify their cells,
some will pound their heads against the walls,
some will even carve wise markings there
about how the cell isn’t really a cell,
or even suspect that the Jailer
is not other than themselves.

Who knows how or when or why,
but a key may slide between the bars
some random night that turns just right.

Locks tumble, rusty doors creak,
then furtive footsteps in the dark –

Free!

Most such lucky inmates
beat a fast path to the light,
but now and then an odd one
sticks around to share that key –

for some mysterious reason,
it just feels somehow right.

Once outside in free fresh air,
it may occur to some of them that
they were never really bound, or that
it was all a weird nightmare from which
they’ve mercifully been spared;

while in the yard,
through the prison bards,
the rumor spreads about a key,
and yet for most, this prison life
meanders onward, aimlessly.

Will you be one of those
who won’t look back until
you yourself are free;

or perhaps the rare one who
returns to help, right down
to the last detainee?

In any case,
for those that
dare to contemplate

“Who or what’s to liberate?”

that question,
if they stick with it,
turns out to be the Key.
Oooh, nice!
Do you know where in cyberspace Sir Bob hangs out these days?

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fuki
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Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: Dosho Port on the Great Question

Post by fuki » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:22 pm

Fruitzilla wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:56 am

Oooh, nice!
Do you know where in cyberspace Sir Bob hangs out these days?
https://feelingtoinfinity.wordpress.com

He just updated his links yesterday, the conscious process are essays and this one more poetry.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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Fruitzilla
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Re: Dosho Port on the Great Question

Post by Fruitzilla » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:35 am

fuki wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:22 pm
Fruitzilla wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:56 am

Oooh, nice!
Do you know where in cyberspace Sir Bob hangs out these days?
https://feelingtoinfinity.wordpress.com

He just updated his links yesterday, the conscious process are essays and this one more poetry.
Thanks! That will be at least an hour of work less today :106:

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fuki
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Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: Dosho Port on the Great Question

Post by fuki » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:18 pm

KeithA wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:28 pm
From an excellent post by Dosho Port:

When a question really begins to cook in us, throwing ourselves into it is not a matter of being macho or of discipline, dogma, or technique. It is about living through the heart’s innermost request. And a sincere eagerness to do whatever it takes arises spontaneously from this heart.
Emphasis mine.

This really struck home for me. What a perfect framing of the practice! At the heart of Dukkha, there is yearning to come to terms with the nature of it.

Why do we suffer?

_/|\_
Another Sir Bob poem.
[SPOILER]
Sometimes I affirm.
Sometimes I deny.

Sometimes I neither
affirm nor deny.

Sometimes I affirm and deny,
simultaneously.

I am life – a paradox
to the certainty-seeking mind,
but never to a heart grown intimate
with its own unqualified nature.

To such a heart, I am fathomless peace,
ever-new joy, unaccountably free –
your own open spaciousness –
expressing itself as the simple
innocent truth at the core
of every moment, both
in and out of time.

Love, how can I be other?

I am your brother, your mother,
your teacher, your fool.

I am a drop-out
from the holy saint school,
a drip of doggy drool,
a footless stepping stool,
a double-edged tool
of the true nondual,
a non-exception
to the golden rule,
a cool crystal pool
behind your hazy
eye wool.

I descend from the skies
to kiss those eyes –

I am the kissing,
the kissed,
the kiss.

I am
what it is
when you ask,

“What is this?”

Historians lie
and prophets are blind.

I am the light
behind their mind.

Yes, No?
What the hell –

let’s slip through the crack
in the Liberty Bell!
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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lobster
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Re: Dosho Port on the Great Question

Post by lobster » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:02 am

I won't speak for you, but as for me, one more step is necessary.
:hatsoff: I can not even speak for myself or the buffalo's tail ...
However I think stepping into the buffalo full room is a good plan. Apologies for the bullshit ... :113:

Now of course the great question is not worth asking. However it seems to be about space. As in how many angelic zeniths can dance on a falling pin before it drops ... :109:

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Great Sage EofH
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Re: Dosho Port on the Great Question

Post by Great Sage EofH » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:39 am

lobster wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:02 am
I won't speak for you, but as for me, one more step is necessary.
:hatsoff: I can not even speak for myself or the buffalo's tail ...
However I think stepping into the buffalo full room is a good plan. Apologies for the bullshit ... :113:

Now of course the great question is not worth asking. However it seems to be about space. As in how many angelic zeniths can dance on a falling pin before it drops ... :109:
http://78.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2wty ... 11_500.gif
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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