Energy

Discussion of Zen Buddhism.
User avatar
fuki
Posts: 2341
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: Energy

Post by fuki » Tue May 01, 2018 4:07 am

lindama wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 4:02 am
ofc, awakening is not personal... the force is speaking
So we awaken to the Heart, not "messages" from reality, since nothing can reach the "Absolute" which most seem confused about, any "message from reality" would be the sound of one hand clapping, no ears can hear it, no fingers to type it, no eyes on zenspace to read it :lol:
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

User avatar
lindama
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:20 pm
Location: Forestville, CA

Re: Energy

Post by lindama » Tue May 01, 2018 4:37 am

ha, I'm not speaking of messages from reality or the absolute. The force/energy permeates.... and I agree, the pinacle of practice awakens the heart.... ofc, it's free of expectations, free of preferences. A formidable energy.

I have no interest in the word "absolute"...... and, there is no such thing as a message from reality that would be the sound of one hand clapping.... just silly!!! The absolute, if it existed, has no interest in sending messages, silly again.

On the earth, the sound of one hand clapping boils down to one simple thing right under our nose..... just hold out one hand and listen..... no sound, that's the so-called sound. it's a setup..... yet some insist on seeking something grand.

nothing fancy about it

linda
fuki wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 4:07 am
lindama wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 4:02 am
ofc, awakening is not personal... the force is speaking
So we awaken to the Heart, not "messages" from reality, since nothing can reach the "Absolute" which most seem confused about, any "message from reality" would be the sound of one hand clapping, no ears can hear it, no fingers to type it, no eyes on zenspace to read it :lol:

User avatar
desert_woodworker
Posts: 1454
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:20 am
Location: Southern Arizona desert, USA

Re: Energy

Post by desert_woodworker » Tue May 01, 2018 5:12 am

fuki wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 3:06 am
Humans are not qualified to comment on awakening, they merely have a fixation with hierarchical thinking and thought processes.
A bodhisattva's "comment" on it is performed in the Wise and Compassionate act or process of helping others.

Teachers' "comment" on it is in helping others to awaken.

--Joe

User avatar
desert_woodworker
Posts: 1454
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:20 am
Location: Southern Arizona desert, USA

Re: Energy

Post by desert_woodworker » Tue May 01, 2018 5:19 am

fuki wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 4:07 am
So we awaken to the Heart, not "messages" from reality, since nothing can reach the "Absolute" which most seem confused about, any "message from reality" would be the sound of one hand clapping, no ears can hear it, no fingers to type it, no eyes on zenspace to read it :lol:
I'd say that we awaken to our true nature, our original nature. No one knows what that is (and can't imagine it) until they awaken to it. I agree with Meido that this includes transformation of body as well as mind, to their original states.

--Joe

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 2341
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: Energy

Post by fuki » Tue May 01, 2018 10:27 am

desert_woodworker wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 5:12 am
fuki wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 3:06 am
Humans are not qualified to comment on awakening, they merely have a fixation with hierarchical thinking and thought processes.
A bodhisattva's "comment" on it is performed in the Wise and Compassionate act or process of helping others.

Teachers' "comment" on it is in helping others to awaken.

--Joe
Yes, unless one thinks/sees oneself as a "bodhisattva" or "teacher" or "awakened"

Relative to the dense human state sure such names are used due to the human fixation of naming and claiming mentioned already. Only such terms mostly let imagination run wild instead of being it what they are, mere names.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

User avatar
desert_woodworker
Posts: 1454
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:20 am
Location: Southern Arizona desert, USA

Re: Energy

Post by desert_woodworker » Tue May 01, 2018 6:09 pm

fuki wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 5:56 pm
Saying animals do not have buddha-nature is a perverted view.
This is a "Rinzai" thread, so I can bring this in... .

Let's see: Well, Chao-Chou (Joshu; J.) said "Wu" ("not") ["Mu"; J.].
  • Monk: "Does a dog have Buddha-Nature?"

    Chao-Chou: "Wu".
--Joe
Last edited by desert_woodworker on Tue May 01, 2018 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 2341
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: Energy

Post by fuki » Tue May 01, 2018 6:11 pm

:lol:

Fun!

Yes you know that is not the "wu" of negation. :P
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

User avatar
desert_woodworker
Posts: 1454
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:20 am
Location: Southern Arizona desert, USA

Re: Energy

Post by desert_woodworker » Tue May 01, 2018 6:12 pm

Wu!

User avatar
desert_woodworker
Posts: 1454
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:20 am
Location: Southern Arizona desert, USA

Re: Energy

Post by desert_woodworker » Tue May 01, 2018 6:20 pm

Larry, quoting an off-forum source, wrote: "I see folks who are really smart, and if they have an energetic point of focus, it is generally from the head. It is not a huge full energy that I experienced in Japan. It does not have the energetic component".
I'd say the feller of the quote ought to see some Chan teachers, in doing any survey of USA. The Chan teachers are smart, and the energetic component is there.

In Japanese-influenced lineages in USA, I'd say Meido Roshi is also both smart and embodies and exemplifies the energetic component; we have not met nor spoken, but a lot comes through in written interchanges over the years. Also I recall there are some YouTube videos of Meido Moore Roshi's teaching.

--Joe

User avatar
Larry
Posts: 843
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:17 am

Re: Energy

Post by Larry » Tue May 01, 2018 9:10 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 6:20 pm
Larry, quoting an off-forum source, wrote: "I see folks who are really smart, and if they have an energetic point of focus, it is generally from the head. It is not a huge full energy that I experienced in Japan. It does not have the energetic component".
I'd say the feller of the quote ought to see some Chan teachers, in doing any survey of USA. The Chan teachers are smart, and the energetic component is there.

In Japanese-influenced lineages in USA, I'd say Meido Roshi is also both smart and embodies and exemplifies the energetic component; we have not met nor spoken, but a lot comes through in written interchanges over the years. Also I recall there are some YouTube videos of Meido Moore Roshi's teaching.

--Joe
I hope this doesn't imply that I was criticising Meido or Guo Gu. Far from it.

User avatar
Meido
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:01 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Contact:

Re: Energy

Post by Meido » Wed May 02, 2018 2:04 am

[Multiple off-topic posts removed by (multiple) mods]

Folks, stay on subject. If there is anything more to discuss RE the OP or otherwise relevant in the Rinzai Zen subforum, have at it.

~ Meido
The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice
Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org

[Note: not reachable by PM. To get in touch please email through the website above.]

User avatar
desert_woodworker
Posts: 1454
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:20 am
Location: Southern Arizona desert, USA

Re: Energy

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed May 02, 2018 3:36 am

Larry wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 9:10 pm
I hope this doesn't imply that I was criticising Meido or Guo Gu. Far from it.
No, you did not. Breathe easy! :)

--Joe

Post Reply