What is Rinzai Zen? Q&A with Meido Moore

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WoodsyLadyM
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What is Rinzai Zen? Q&A with Meido Moore

Post by WoodsyLadyM » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:02 pm


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Re: What is Rinzai Zen? Q&A with Meido Moore

Post by Dan74 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:32 am

Just watched it and really encourage others with even a tiny bit of curiosity about Rinzai Zen to do likewise. I thought Meido does a fine job of putting across the flavour of his lineage. :bow2: :bow2: :bow2:

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Re: What is Rinzai Zen? Q&A with Meido Moore

Post by desert_woodworker » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:07 pm

I like the book, and the movie is good, too.
Kudos to the newly(?)-bearded Roshi, ..."standing further from the razor". :hatsoff:

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Re: What is Rinzai Zen? Q&A with Meido Moore

Post by Meido » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:03 pm

Thanks for the kind words folks.

Carving the Divine, the documentary film that these clips support, is worth checking out: www.carvingthedivine.com

Razor: only get to shave every 5 days or so in the monastery. Suits my laziness.
The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice
Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org
Madison, WI Rinzai Zen Community [機山龍源寺] - http://www.madisonrinzaizen.org
The Rinzai Zen Community - http://www.rinzaizen.org

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Re: What is Rinzai Zen? Q&A with Meido Moore

Post by Meido » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:04 pm

Thanks for the kind words folks.

Carving the Divine, the documentary film that these clips support, is worth checking out: www.carvingthedivine.com

Razor: only get to shave every 5 days or so in the monastery. Suits my laziness, and I may have skipped a few of those days even.
The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice
Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org
Madison, WI Rinzai Zen Community [機山龍源寺] - http://www.madisonrinzaizen.org
The Rinzai Zen Community - http://www.rinzaizen.org

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Re: What is Rinzai Zen? Q&A with Meido Moore

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:23 am

Many blessings Meido.

--Joe

shaolin-kung-fu-demonstration-in-Luo-Yang_.jpg
(beard doesn't much get in the way)
.
shaolin-kung-fu-demonstration-in-Luo-Yang_.jpg (219.65 KiB) Viewed 431 times
Ignorance is to be ignorant of one's original mind. - Ma Tsu

Liberation is awakening to one's original nature. - Ma Tsu

The World is all that is the case. -Ludwig Wittgenstein

Why weigh anything heavy?

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Re: What is Rinzai Zen? Q&A with Meido Moore

Post by narhwal90 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:06 pm

Always nice when the book and movie matches 😀 thanks Meido

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Re: What is Rinzai Zen? Q&A with Meido Moore

Post by Pablo » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:41 pm

I must say that I really enjoyed Yujiro's passion. He made me smile a lot :D

Meido, I have a question. How extended is this "looking at the statue" practice in Rinzai Zen? Is it a peculiar feature of Omori Sogen's lineage, with its emphasis on physicality?
Jeff Shore's website: https://beingwithoutself.org

Zazen in Madrid: https://pandazen.es

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Re: What is Rinzai Zen? Q&A with Meido Moore

Post by Meido » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:52 pm

Pablo wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:41 pm
Meido, I have a question. How extended is this "looking at the statue" practice in Rinzai Zen? Is it a peculiar feature of Omori Sogen's lineage, with its emphasis on physicality?
I'd say it's really just a standard Rinzai take on things...as is emphasis on physicality/embodiment (well, I would assert the latter is a standard Zen take on things). Some lineages have explicit oral instruction about this stuff. Others, it's more implicit.

Actually, an Edo period Soto monk was famous for his approach using images like this. If it interests you, look up Suzuki Shosan.
The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice
Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org
Madison, WI Rinzai Zen Community [機山龍源寺] - http://www.madisonrinzaizen.org
The Rinzai Zen Community - http://www.rinzaizen.org

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Re: What is Rinzai Zen? Q&A with Meido Moore

Post by Dan74 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:32 pm

While I can imagine that there are specific and valuable instructions in connection with this, the notion doesn't strike me as odd at all - this empathetic appreciation of art is what all people who love art know well. Or am I missing the point?

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Re: What is Rinzai Zen? Q&A with Meido Moore

Post by Meido » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:46 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:32 pm
Or am I missing the point?
I don't think so.

It is essentially an empathetic and bodily - rather than primarily conceptual - interaction with art.
The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice
Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org
Madison, WI Rinzai Zen Community [機山龍源寺] - http://www.madisonrinzaizen.org
The Rinzai Zen Community - http://www.rinzaizen.org

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Re: What is Rinzai Zen? Q&A with Meido Moore

Post by Dan74 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:11 pm

Meido wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:46 pm
Dan74 wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:32 pm
Or am I missing the point?
I don't think so.

It is essentially an empathetic and bodily - rather than primarily conceptual - interaction with art.
Right.

Some folks have a very physical reaction to art. That this is rare is possible due, I think, to the fact that we've develped a deep disconnect between the mental and the physical. I am quite extreme like that. Learning to have a healthy relationship with the body and to be physically present, as well as mentally, emotionally, is new.

But I'd also like to say that non-bodily or non- primarily bodily doesn't mean 'conceptual', unless you mean conceptual in a different sense? It can be a very deeply felt emotional or spiritual experience, that would also reflect in the body, but in a secondary manner.


_/|\_

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Re: What is Rinzai Zen? Q&A with Meido Moore

Post by Meido » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:38 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:11 pm
But I'd also like to say that non-bodily or non- primarily bodily doesn't mean 'conceptual', unless you mean conceptual in a different sense? It can be a very deeply felt emotional or spiritual experience that would also reflect in the body, but in a secondary manner.
I hear you. By "primarily conceptual," I here just mean experiencing art in the main as an object upon which one projects one's own fabrications, reflexive judgements, intellectualizing, analysis, and so on.

A truer way to experience art from the Zen perspective is more wholly psycho-physical, which gives the possibility of seamlessly mirroring or "joining with," rather than viewing "object" from the standpoint of "subject." It is a seeing without seeing, if you will. In the former way of viewing, the object is a target of our gaze, and our minds reach out through the senses to examine and interpret. In the latter way of viewing, the object rings us like a bell. Or you could say, one is seen as much as one sees.

There is oral instruction RE how to view something like calligraphy, for example, discussing things in terms of energetics, detailing how to hold one's posture, how to "see" using the hara, and so on. In other words, there are usages of body that support this experience.
The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice
Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org
Madison, WI Rinzai Zen Community [機山龍源寺] - http://www.madisonrinzaizen.org
The Rinzai Zen Community - http://www.rinzaizen.org

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Re: What is Rinzai Zen? Q&A with Meido Moore

Post by Dan74 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:06 pm

Thank you. :namaste:

So essentially a not-two 'experiencing' with the whole being?


I guess the various levels of 'stuckness' in terms of both the energy and awareness require a great deal of precise work to integrate into every situation...

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Re: What is Rinzai Zen? Q&A with Meido Moore

Post by Meido » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:24 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:06 pm
So essentially a not-two 'experiencing' with the whole being?
One could say that, though you can see how the words sabotage the point.

I would just say that if one sees, for example, a statue of Fudo Myo-o, one arises as Fudo. Seeing a statue of Kannon, one arises instantly as Kannon.

Also, the power and skill of the artist is not an insignificant factor in this.
Dan74 wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:06 pm
I guess the various levels of 'stuckness' in terms of both the energy and awareness require a great deal of precise work to integrate into every situation...
If you wish to attain this true and genuine Way, you need to pay close attention to all the details. ~ Torei

:D
The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice
Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org
Madison, WI Rinzai Zen Community [機山龍源寺] - http://www.madisonrinzaizen.org
The Rinzai Zen Community - http://www.rinzaizen.org

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Re: What is Rinzai Zen? Q&A with Meido Moore

Post by Pablo » Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:35 am

Meido wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:52 pm
Pablo wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:41 pm
Meido, I have a question. How extended is this "looking at the statue" practice in Rinzai Zen? Is it a peculiar feature of Omori Sogen's lineage, with its emphasis on physicality?
I'd say it's really just a standard Rinzai take on things...as is emphasis on physicality/embodiment (well, I would assert the latter is a standard Zen take on things). Some lineages have explicit oral instruction about this stuff. Others, it's more implicit.
Thanks for your answer. Yes, I agree that the embodiment of practice is an essential aspect of Zen (I would say that a characteristic aspect of Rinzai Zen is its active and vital expression of awakening in the world). This manifests, as Dan says, in our appreciation of art, but also our experience of nature, our interactions with others, and so on. My teacher Jeff says we just have to be "open to what is" in front of our eyes. But there is no specific emphasis on artwork, that's why I asked.
Meido wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:52 pm
Actually, an Edo period Soto monk was famous for his approach using images like this. If it interests you, look up Suzuki Shosan.
Very interesting guy. Thanks! :namaste:
Jeff Shore's website: https://beingwithoutself.org

Zazen in Madrid: https://pandazen.es

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Re: What is Rinzai Zen? Q&A with Meido Moore

Post by Dan74 » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:37 pm

Meido wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:24 pm
Dan74 wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:06 pm
So essentially a not-two 'experiencing' with the whole being?
One could say that, though you can see how the words sabotage the point.

I would just say that if one sees, for example, a statue of Fudo Myo-o, one arises as Fudo. Seeing a statue of Kannon, one arises instantly as Kannon.

Also, the power and skill of the artist is not an insignificant factor in this.

Thank you.
Dan74 wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:06 pm
I guess the various levels of 'stuckness' in terms of both the energy and awareness require a great deal of precise work to integrate into every situation...
If you wish to attain this true and genuine Way, you need to pay close attention to all the details. ~ Torei

:D
[/quote]

Al the details indeed!

_/|\_

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