"Jewel Mirror Samadhi" study thread

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Meido
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Re: "Jewel Mirror Samadhi" study thread

Post by Meido » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:09 pm

See also Keiso Dokuzui, here:

https://terebess.hu/zen/hakuin1.html#1

~ Meido
The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice
Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org
Madison, WI Rinzai Zen Community [機山龍源寺] - http://www.madisonrinzaizen.org
The Rinzai Zen Community - http://www.rinzaizen.org

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Re: "Jewel Mirror Samadhi" study thread

Post by lindama » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:23 pm

For simplicity sake.... #2 group.... Snow in a silver bowl.

This was given to me as a koan. I remember this part, I don't remember if it had a question/statement attached. Until your post, I did not know where it came from. Elegant in itself.

And, now that I'm looking, it seems there are other references that I didn't know I had in my files, Pacific Zen:
Baling Haojian’s Three Turning Words

a What is the school of Kanadeva?
Snow in a silver bowl.

b 1 What is the way?
2 The clearly enlightened person falls into a well.

c 1 What is the blown-hair sword?
2 Each branch of coral holds up the light of the moon.
and this, cityzensantarosa:
Baling was a student of Yunmen Wenyan who established the Yunmen school of Zen that flourished for about 300 years before being absorbed into the Rinzai school. When Baling took up residence as a teacher, he did not create a document of succession for his students. He only used three turning phrases as the way to attain the essence of the Yunmen school.

A person of the way asked, "What is the Tao?"

Baling responded, "A clear-eyed person falls into a well."

A person of the way asked, "What is the blown-feather sword that cuts away delusion?"

Baling responded, "Each Coral branch of coral holds up the moon."

A person of the way asked, "What is old-lady Zen?"

Baling responded, "Fresh snow in a silver bowl."

Yunmen said, "In future, on my remembrance day, just restate these three turning phrases, then you will have repaid my benevolence."
I've sat with these koans many times without knowing the backstories on who and why or their source. Also recognize, house of treasures is another old friend.

Snow in a silver bowl

linda

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Re: "Jewel Mirror Samadhi" study thread

Post by jundocohen » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:01 am

There is an invaluable document for such a study which I would highly recommend to you, as it sheds light on many obscure points of reference and history ... many points you might not otherwise catch ...

JEWEL MIRROR SAMADHI TRANSLATION STUDY
https://terebess.hu/zen/HokyoMirror.pdf

Gassho, J

SatToday
Teacher at Treeleaf Zendo, a Soto Zen Sangha, an online practice place for folks who cannot commute to a Zen Center due to health, living in remote areas, work or family needs. The focus is Shikantaza 'Just Sitting' Zazen http://www.treeleaf.org

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Re: "Jewel Mirror Samadhi" study thread

Post by KeithA » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:31 am

lindama wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:23 pm
For simplicity sake.... #2 group.... Snow in a silver bowl.

This was given to me as a koan. I remember this part, I don't remember if it had a question/statement attached. Until your post, I did not know where it came from. Elegant in itself.

And, now that I'm looking, it seems there are other references that I didn't know I had in my files, Pacific Zen:
Baling Haojian’s Three Turning Words

a What is the school of Kanadeva?
Snow in a silver bowl.

b 1 What is the way?
2 The clearly enlightened person falls into a well.

c 1 What is the blown-hair sword?
2 Each branch of coral holds up the light of the moon.
and this, cityzensantarosa:
Baling was a student of Yunmen Wenyan who established the Yunmen school of Zen that flourished for about 300 years before being absorbed into the Rinzai school. When Baling took up residence as a teacher, he did not create a document of succession for his students. He only used three turning phrases as the way to attain the essence of the Yunmen school.

A person of the way asked, "What is the Tao?"

Baling responded, "A clear-eyed person falls into a well."

A person of the way asked, "What is the blown-feather sword that cuts away delusion?"

Baling responded, "Each Coral branch of coral holds up the moon."

A person of the way asked, "What is old-lady Zen?"

Baling responded, "Fresh snow in a silver bowl."

Yunmen said, "In future, on my remembrance day, just restate these three turning phrases, then you will have repaid my benevolence."
I've sat with these koans many times without knowing the backstories on who and why or their source. Also recognize, house of treasures is another old friend.

Snow in a silver bowl

linda
Wonderful post, Linda...I have always loved the mental image of a silver bowl filled with fluffy new snow.

The next line talks about a heron. Korean Buddhism features herons (and geese) from time to time.

I have a very mundane heron story. One night at the DMZ between North and South Korea, a squad of North Koreans was spotted inside the South Korean side of the neutral zone. When something like this happens, things get very tense. I spent six months there, and it is a stressful place. Anyway, there are protocols that are followed, involving all kinds of verification and re-verifications. As all this was going on, the observers watching the squad from one of the interior guardposts noticed that one of the North Korean soldiers got up and flew away!!

It turned out that is was group of herons! :lol:

Hiding a heron in the moonlight, indeed!
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

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Re: "Jewel Mirror Samadhi" study thread

Post by guo gu » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:37 pm

good to see you here, linda!

a gift for you for the new year...
lindama wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:23 pm

Baling Haojian’s Three Turning Words

a What is the school of Kanadeva?
Snow in a silver bowl.
in disguise, living in the dusty world.
lindama wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:23 pm
b 1 What is the way?
2 The clearly enlightened person falls into a well.
don't block the precious mirror's shine.
lindama wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:23 pm
c 1 What is the blown-hair sword?
2 Each branch of coral holds up the light of the moon.
dust, dust, dust!
that's where you'll find the mirror.

be well,
guo gu

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Re: "Jewel Mirror Samadhi" study thread

Post by lindama » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:53 pm

:bow2:
be well Guo Gu
hugs
linda
guo gu wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:37 pm
good to see you here, linda!

a gift for you for the new year...
lindama wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:23 pm

Baling Haojian’s Three Turning Words

a What is the school of Kanadeva?
Snow in a silver bowl.
in disguise, living in the dusty world.
lindama wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:23 pm
b 1 What is the way?
2 The clearly enlightened person falls into a well.
don't block the precious mirror's shine.
lindama wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:23 pm
c 1 What is the blown-hair sword?
2 Each branch of coral holds up the light of the moon.
dust, dust, dust!
that's where you'll find the mirror.

be well,
guo gu

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KeithA
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Re: "Jewel Mirror Samadhi" study thread

Post by KeithA » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:53 pm

I just love seeing the various translations for the same characters. It is a window into the mind of the translator. And, also a useful reminder to look at other translations before forming opinions the various teachings. Different renderings can lead to a different understanding of the material.

_/|\_
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

Caodemarte
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Re: "Jewel Mirror Samadhi" study thread

Post by Caodemarte » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:26 pm

KeithA wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:53 pm
I just love seeing the various translations for the same characters. It is a window into the mind of the translator. And, also a useful reminder to look at other translations before forming opinions the various teachings. Different renderings can lead to a different understanding of the material.

_/|\_
Yes, indeed. It is also important to place each translation into the boarder Buddhist context, which the translator may or may not know. A translator is often focused solely on the words in the text or the text as an isolated entity. If we want to read Buddhist texts like “Jewel Mirror Samadhi” it is important to bring our wider knowledge of Buddhism into play.Otherwise we will end up cherry picking 🍒 words in ”Jewel Mirror Samadhi” to support our own ideas. I can already hear “‘Jewel Mirror Samadhi’ says there is a substance called Samadhi that has magical properties!”

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Re: "Jewel Mirror Samadhi" study thread

Post by lindama » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:57 am

any comments on this? it occurs to me.... what is jewel mirror samadhi/bright mirror samadhi.... a mirror lacks image, mirrors have no inherent lasting image.... this is a Tibetan teaching. I've never taken snow in a silver bowl to be a nice image to hold in meditation... it takes words away. So it seems that all this beautiful poetry brings us to the ineffable. what does samadhi look like in a jewel mirror with no jewels.

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Re: "Jewel Mirror Samadhi" study thread

Post by michaeljc » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:46 am

This is a fine topic

I particularly like:
Conceal your practice, work inside. Be ignorant, look foolish
This is why being told that one is wasting one's time by practicing alone is so valuable (IMO)

Thank you EG

m

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Re: "Jewel Mirror Samadhi" study thread

Post by Great Sage EofH » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:41 am

lindama wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:57 am
any comments on this? it occurs to me.... what is jewel mirror samadhi/bright mirror samadhi.... a mirror lacks image, mirrors have no inherent lasting image.... this is a Tibetan teaching. I've never taken snow in a silver bowl to be a nice image to hold in meditation... it takes words away. So it seems that all this beautiful poetry brings us to the ineffable. what does samadhi look like in a jewel mirror with no jewels.
Linda i read it like this:

The teaching of Thusness given freely by all Buddha Ancestors is now yours.
Keep it Well.

A silver bowl is hidden under snow, as a heron is hidden in the moon.
Place them side by side and you see the distinction.

(Comment: At what point did you see no distinction?)

Meaning won't be trapped by words. It goes where it wants.
Relying on them, you are left with trembling and regret.

Rejecting and clinging to them is wrong.
Like a ball of fire, useful but dangerous.

Explained plainly, the Mirror loses it's spark.
Seen at night, it's luminous.

What's the universal Principle? How does it remove all suffering?
Even though its unconditioned we still talk of it!

You are used to seeing your reflection,
Now it's your reflection seeing you.

You are everywhere,
and yet there is no "you" anywhere.

(Comment: Don't seek from others,
Or you'll be estranged from yourself.
I now go on alone—
Everywhere I encounter It.
It now is me, I now am not It.
One must understand in this way
To merge with being as is.)

- continued -
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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Re: "Jewel Mirror Samadhi" study thread

Post by Great Sage EofH » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:50 pm

SunWuKong wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:41 am
lindama wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:57 am
any comments on this? it occurs to me.... what is jewel mirror samadhi/bright mirror samadhi.... a mirror lacks image, mirrors have no inherent lasting image.... this is a Tibetan teaching. I've never taken snow in a silver bowl to be a nice image to hold in meditation... it takes words away. So it seems that all this beautiful poetry brings us to the ineffable. what does samadhi look like in a jewel mirror with no jewels.
Linda i read it like this:

The teaching of Thusness given freely by all Buddha Ancestors is now yours.
Keep it Well.

A silver bowl is hidden under snow, as a heron is hidden in the moon.
Place them side by side and you see the distinction.

(Comment: At what point did you see no distinction?)

Meaning won't be trapped by words. It goes where it wants.
Relying on them, you are left with trembling and regret.

Rejecting and clinging to them is wrong.
Like a ball of fire, useful but dangerous.

Explained plainly, the Mirror loses it's spark.
Seen at night, it's luminous.

What's the universal Principle? How does it remove all suffering?
Even though its unconditioned we still talk of it!

You are used to seeing your reflection,
Now it's your reflection seeing you.

You are everywhere,
and yet there is no "you" anywhere.

(Comment: Don't seek from others,
Or you'll be estranged from yourself.
I now go on alone—
Everywhere I encounter It.
It now is me, I now am not It.
One must understand in this way
To merge with being as is.)

- continued -
I'm fascinated by the use of the classic figure/ground problem "things-are-only-relationships-to-each other" Heron Hidden in the Moon. And it's paired with another Snow in a Silver Bowl. Dongshan's Samadhi is said to have been seen in reflection in a stream of flowing water. "it now is me, I now am not it" reminds me of a game we used to play when we were kids called "tag." I now am not it. Koan puts me on a hot seat, and I never even asked for one. Now decide are you playing the game or not. Are you in or are you out, because if you are in, you are either it or not it. But it and not it only exist in relation to each other. In tag, if no one is it, no one can be not it. If some one is it, then you can play.

Also early on, the value of words is questioned. Which is interesting, because all we have is words to go by. Since there is no Dongshan here, all we have is words, pointing to the moon. If we behold the moon, the words fall together. If we don't, they don't.

The whole poem is about a massive fire, which is but a reflection of a massive fire. It is fire, doubled, like the hexagram Li, #30. It is perfect Prajñā, reflected clearly in perfect Samādhi, which of course is impossible for the rational logical mind to conceive of, because in Prajñā there's no room left for anything else, and likewise Samādhi.

Anyhow, LOL that's how i read it so far. Thanks for asking Linda. Thanks for posting El G. :namaste:
.
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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Re: "Jewel Mirror Samadhi" study thread

Post by Great Sage EofH » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:44 am

Skipping down to the last line:

"Practicing inwardly, functioning in secret, playing the fool, seemingly stupid,
If you can only persist in this way, you will see the lord within the lord."

This seems to come naturally, how odd it is he says "if you can"
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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Re: "Jewel Mirror Samadhi" study thread

Post by guo gu » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:46 am

SunWuKong wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:44 am
Skipping down to the last line:

"Practicing inwardly, functioning in secret, playing the fool, seemingly stupid,
If you can only persist in this way, you will see the lord within the lord."

This seems to come naturally, how odd it is he says "if you can"
that refers to post-awakening practice. it is particularly important, in fact.
most ppl want to share with the world the little attainment they have--these ppl are definitely not a "fool." they want a dharma transmission certificate; they want to spread the dharma, etc. with meager experience, their self becomes greater.... the biggest self walking around.
thus, it is important in order to continue, conceal one's virtue, hide one's realization lest others find out.... then students flock to you. one becomes a teacher prematurely.
make sense?
guo gu

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Re: "Jewel Mirror Samadhi" study thread

Post by Great Sage EofH » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:43 am

guo gu wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:46 am
SunWuKong wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:44 am
Skipping down to the last line:

"Practicing inwardly, functioning in secret, playing the fool, seemingly stupid,
If you can only persist in this way, you will see the lord within the lord."

This seems to come naturally, how odd it is he says "if you can"
that refers to post-awakening practice. it is particularly important, in fact.
most ppl want to share with the world the little attainment they have--these ppl are definitely not a "fool." they want a dharma transmission certificate; they want to spread the dharma, etc. with meager experience, their self becomes greater.... the biggest self walking around.
thus, it is important in order to continue, conceal one's virtue, hide one's realization lest others find out.... then students flock to you. one becomes a teacher prematurely.
make sense?
guo gu
Yes.
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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Re: "Jewel Mirror Samadhi" study thread

Post by fuki » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:16 pm

I like the idea of studying/reading together, but most topics ever created (zfi) like the lanka study thread, it's all over the place, P1 quotes page 6 P2 quotes page 33 and it becomes a mess.

Is it in idea to pick a sutra of the month (or how long it takes) for instance, then 1 member posts a first entree of the sutra (or whatever) and only after everyone (who has said to read along) is done do we post the 2nd part etcetera, etcetera, when we have question teachers could chip in until we read the whole thingy. We could set a time limit and everyone participating has to at least post a "read" message even when no questions or comments so we know when to move on. I would actually like any of the teachers to manage this and moderate it and perhaps even pick the sutra/text.

It would give a part of the forum more a Sangha feel then a random zen forum.
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Re: "Jewel Mirror Samadhi" study thread

Post by Caodemarte » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:00 pm


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Re: "Jewel Mirror Samadhi" study thread

Post by Great Sage EofH » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:22 pm

Sorry due to my lack of proper training and scholarship it took me a while to flesh this one out:

In the hexagram "double fire," when main and subsidiary lines are transposed,
Piled up they become three; the permutations make five.

Like the taste of the five-flavored herb, like the five-pronged vajra.
Wondrously embraced within the complete, drumming and singing begin together.


Hexagram 30 is Li above, Li below. There are five pairs, and he's looking at the sequence of the five, reading from bottom to top. he's teaching five stages, and I just located this text that seems to bring it to light, so i'll just drop it here:

https://www.baus.org/en/publications/dr ... five-eyes/


summarized elsewhere:

The five eyes are:

(1) the physical-eye, or the faculty of sight, that sees the ordinary objects before it;

(2) the spiritual-eye sees birth and death, good and bad, causes and conditions;

(3) the eye of Wisdom sees the true nature of things, emptiness, nirvana;

(4) the eye of Dharma is inspired by the thought of universal compassion;

(5) the Buddha-eye, the eye of awakening.

and here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Ranks

"Once one overcomes the attachment to emptiness, the unconditional, nondiscriminating love and compassion arising spontaneously from a direct experience of emptiness is truly a wonder of mankind. This teaching makes Buddhism a most unique and profound practical religion."
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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