Gathering Wool from one's own daily practise

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boda
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Re: Gathering Wool from one's own daily practise

Post by boda » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:35 pm

At one point while sitting today I had an unusual feeling that my sense of self was just barley hanging on and that if I could just let go a bit more it would fall away. It was just a feeling, my sense of self held firm :| , was a good sit though.

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Re: Gathering Wool from one's own daily practise

Post by Dan74 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:56 pm

fuki wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:41 pm
2 vows today;

stop lending money to ppl you know you wont get back anyway (said that a 100 times and a few thousand bucks later but who knows perhaps this is the day I learn)

and stop making music for the deaf.
Vow #3: stop making vows you know you ain't gonna keep ;)

Besides the deaf are the ones perhaps in the most need of music. Don't stop. Give up but dont stop.

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Re: Gathering Wool from one's own daily practise

Post by Caodemarte » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:58 am

Dan74 wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:56 pm
Vow #3: stop making vows you know you ain't gonna keep ;)

Besides the deaf are the ones perhaps in the most need of music. Don't stop. Give up but dont stop.

Or just keep fulfilling the impossible vows over and over again.

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Re: Gathering Wool from one's own daily practise

Post by fuki » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:47 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:56 pm

Vow #3: stop making vows you know you ain't gonna keep ;)
Thanks Dan, Cao, Friends.

I already forgot about it, it wasn't a vow as I read it now, merely thinking, the error of thinking there's a presence (present) of mind (and hence time/space) instead of a function, thus a self-referential moment which entered this forum. Such "vows" are pretty useless since they dont come from the heart but from thoughts, and all thoughts about doing and not doing whether its about money or music are from the past (attachments), eventhough there's no such thing. There's no such thing as braking or keeping vows, apart from the thought of it, true vows are "timeless" as it is timeless there cannot be any thought about vows arising.

Thanks for allowing the observation, you guys rock ;)
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Re: Gathering Wool from one's own daily practise

Post by Wayfarer » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:22 pm

What occurs to me, is that when you're sitting really well, then nothing is happening. It's not as if you're having some great experience. Rather your whole body-mind becomes something like the meditation bell you're hearing - just a simple tone, a single note.

I think at this point, my challenge is, to persist with reaching that state with greater frequency and application. I'm doing a morning sit every day but often, the mind is very distracted, 'how long?', fidgeting with things, looking about and generally being a monkey. So I need to start getting up earlier, as it's definitely better to sit at or before daybreak, and also increase the number of sessions, by sitting in the evening too, if not every day, three days. The body and mind grumble incessantly and complain about it being boring and pointless. But it takes persistence and application and also diligent non-expectation. And deep down, you know that there is work being done if you stay the course.

Actually one of my favourite Zen anecdotes was one where a student had an interview with the teacher, and told him excitedly about having realised kensho. What to do now? he asked. 'Apply with broad, even strokes, allowing some time to dry between coats', was the advice. Always loved that story. :D
The most important thing is not at all important.

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Re: Gathering Wool from one's own daily practise

Post by fuki » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:25 pm

I'm reminded what Keith often says;
"practising for all beings" which is practising from the Heart, not the mind.

I remember the days when I used to wonder why am I practising, when can I get up and stop this session, trying to squeeze another 5 minutes out and all those neurotics of the "me" story.

But practise became effortless when I was transformed by a Brother's trust, wisdom and love. The joy that can expand into infinity, yet there's no room for complacency and the greatest gift is in encouraging others, which gives our own practise so much depth and continuity in the spirit of true friendship.
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Re: Gathering Wool from one's own daily practise

Post by Wayfarer » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:11 am

One thing I notice is that Zen, as it is actually practiced in Japanese culture, is strictly regimented. The whole day is laid out according to a schedule (see here for example.) Whereas the way Zen is often portrayed in popular books about it, is the opposite - spontaneity and freedom, and more or less doing as you please. (Alan Watts wrote about this a long time ago in Beat Zen, Square Zen and Zen.)

Anyway, in my own case, I am trying to introduce a bit more formality and schedule into my daily practice. Being a solo practitioner, nobody notices if I practice or not (except wife), or what time I sit or what I do. So I am trying to be a bit more conscientious and structured in my approach - mainly by sticking to a particular time and also some more structured and formal practice. I started out with absolutely zero self-discipline and now am at about, oh, 5%. Onward and upward. (Of course it's different for everyone, this is just my 2 bobs.)
The most important thing is not at all important.

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Re: Gathering Wool from one's own daily practise

Post by desert_woodworker » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:54 am

"Gathering Wool, carrying water".

_/\_

--Joe

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Re: Gathering Wool from one's own daily practise

Post by Meido » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:23 am

Wayfarer wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:11 am
One thing I notice is that Zen, as it is actually practiced in Japanese culture, is strictly regimented. The whole day is laid out according to a schedule (see here for example.) Whereas the way Zen is often portrayed in popular books about it, is the opposite - spontaneity and freedom, and more or less doing as you please.
Well, one day you should take up Mumonkan #16 :)

~ Meido
The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice
Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org
Madison, WI Rinzai Zen Community [機山龍源寺] - http://www.madisonrinzaizen.org
The Rinzai Zen Community - http://www.rinzaizen.org

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Re: Gathering Wool from one's own daily practise

Post by Wayfarer » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:30 am

Thank you, when I next visit, I shall seek instruction in exactly that.

:namaste:
The most important thing is not at all important.

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boda
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Re: Gathering Wool from one's own daily practise

Post by boda » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:57 pm

Yesterday, when my mind was particularly quiet, I had the sense of a kind of formless thought, like a thought that wasn't linguistic or whatever. I think it was just my imagination.

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Re: Gathering Wool from one's own daily practise

Post by Wayfarer » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:49 am

The invaluable lesson I have learned from meditation is the transient nature of thoughts, moods and emotions. Before I had the insight they were transient, they had an all-consuming reality to them. But noticing that they are really just the interplay of feelings and thoughts lessens their hold. I think that is one of the meanings of 'realising emptiness' - it as if thoughts and emotions are like clouds and you can sense their insubstantiality. They gather, they might hang around for a bit, but they will always disperse, as clouds do. And meanwhile, you simply do what needs to be done, whatever that might be.
The most important thing is not at all important.

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Re: Gathering Wool from one's own daily practise

Post by fuki » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:05 pm

bodhi wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:57 pm
I had the sense of a kind of formless thought, like a thought that wasn't linguistic or whatever.
I used to call it "rudimentry energy" indeed there are "thoughts" that are wordless, you can sense its arising prior to "words" But now I just call it "movement"
Actually there's an "Ocean of time" between each thought, love to dive right in. :)

Sorry for commenting by which I mean that I'm not commenting to assert or negate. But I can relate to what you say.
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Re: Gathering Wool from one's own daily practise

Post by boda » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:45 pm

Wayfarer wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:49 am
They [thoughts and emotions] gather, they might hang around for a bit, but they will always disperse, as clouds do. And meanwhile, you simply do what needs to be done, whatever that might be.
I clearly know this, still sometimes feelings are so strong that I can see them, hold them at a bit of a distance, know that they'll pass soon enough, and yet they affect me to the degree that I can't just do whatever needs to be done, at least not easily.

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Re: Gathering Wool from one's own daily practise

Post by Wayfarer » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:10 pm

Of course you're correct. Later I came to regret writing that post, as if 'it's all so simple' when the reality often isn't.

Actually what I had meant to enter was a copy I have kept in my scrapbook from a Usenet post about meditation. I couldn't find it at the time, so tried to re-phrase it, but here's the original, and it puts it much more clearly:
'Waking up' means: no more mistaking 'existence' as 'crappy'. Whatever you may think life is, is wrong. It's all beyond the painful confines of apparent thoughts and rational judgements. Boundless and clear. People assume they are thinking, even thinking logically, but in fact they are being 'thought'. Does one control thoughts or is it the other way around? Obviously thoughts go where they will, to heaven and to hell, according to circumstance and conditioned interpretation, and folks helplessly follow those thoughts when they identify with thought as their own doing and their own self-ness. But if one were the real thinker of his own thoughts, how could he ever be displeased? How could he be sad or angry or fearful or full of pains? Thoughts nag. Thoughts circle. Thoughts attack. Proper meditation allows seeing thoughts as thoughts, and feelings as feelings, mere mental phantoms of no substance, and not by any means any 'reality' of importance or dread. This is detachment-mindfulness. Non-meditators can't see thoughts and feelings as such, but they unconsciously obey them as commands supposedly arising from their own self-ness. They are helplessly and painfully reactive and out of control. Victims of circumstance. They don't know what they're doing, or where they're going, racing along heedlessly 'thoughtful'. If you think meditation seems hard or painful, that is thought, not truth. Don't believe what you think you think. Bathed in thought, submerged in thought, enchanted by thought one dreams up a 'life' of heavens and hells that truly do not exist. Reality is here and now. There's not a problem in the world.
The most important thing is not at all important.

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Re: Gathering Wool from one's own daily practise

Post by boda » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:12 pm

Didn't think you were boasting, Wayfarer. If anything I was envious. :mrgreen:

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