self-attachment in posts

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guo gu
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self-attachment in posts

Post by guo gu » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:42 pm

hi all,
do you all recognize the workings of self-referentiality, self-attachment on the internet (forum) space? in principles, what are the signs? characteristics? pls share.
avoiding self-attachment in posting in this forum and engaging in other online activities can be a practice itself. those who's self-attachment is low tend to express this in their posts anyway, but the internet dystopia can suck one into the vortex of self. having a thread like this would be helpful for guiding the continuity of this forum.
be free,
guo gu

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fuki
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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by fuki » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:50 pm

Thank you Guo Gu,

I sometimes notice it when I inject a self.
In its arising its "liberated" (when recognized)

Practise and paying attention is 24/7 on the cushion is peanuts, when noticed its just noticed, anything more would be a superimposition, or layer upon layer of the same injection when either asserted or negated.

I'm blessed by any exposure. :111:
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Wayfarer
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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by Wayfarer » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:40 pm

Very important point, Guo Gu. It is perhaps natural to 'sound off' on the Internet because as a medium it is very easy to use, plus you get the satisfaction of seeing your words on the screen and of telling others your views.

It is not necessarily unhealthy to post on the Internet - on the plus side, it makes you think through what it is you really mean to say, and it gives you the opportunity to hear the views of others and engage in discussion. But on the negative side, it can feed into feelings of 'being right', of elevating your own sense of self-importance.

Buddhists generally need to be mindful of 'attachment to views', or strong opinions that are held on emotional grounds.
The most important thing is not at all important.

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Crystal
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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by Crystal » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:52 pm

Wayfarer wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:40 pm

It is not necessarily unhealthy to post on the Internet - on the plus side, it makes you think through what it is you really mean to say, and it gives you the opportunity to hear the views of others and engage in discussion. But on the negative side, it can feed into feelings of 'being right', of elevating your own sense of self-importance.

Buddhists generally need to be mindful of 'attachment to views', or strong opinions that are held on emotional grounds.
:560:


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Great Sage EofH
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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by Great Sage EofH » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:37 pm

? It's not what the self-attached say, it's what they leave out...
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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fuki
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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by fuki » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:33 pm

SunWuKong wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:37 pm
? It's not what the self-attached say, it's what they leave out...
Think I know what you mean but could you elaborate?

One of the best advices I ever got from gg was; "dont worry about the dream of others, understand your own" or something in that spirit. :D
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Dan74
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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by Dan74 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:41 am

No doubt there is self-attachment at work in being an admin, having the power to control and alter what happens here as well as the posting itself.

For this unenlightened sod, recognition is key (always liked the English slang "sod", btw, no real Aussie equivalent with the same ring to it.)

I sometimes start to post but don't go through. Why add my confusion to the mix? But sometimes it feels 'right'. Is it? In retrospect, it is hard to say with any certainty. I just try not to add negativity (there's plenty around already - I mean in the world) and treat people with respect. A few deep breaths, recognising habitual emotional responses arising, the games we play, the pictures in my mind of other members and how they are mine, as are the dramas that unfold. Taking responsibility, rather than projecting. This I've found useful after some years on the Fora. And by and large, I've been deeply impressed by quite a few solid discussions in this small place. Not to mention, a good friendly vibe. They've made it worthwhile.

_/|\_

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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by Larry » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:48 am

:560:

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Dan74
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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by Dan74 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:25 am

PS Plus self-attachment in getting the likes from Larry, who must surely be a personage of deep discernment and gravitas (otherwise it wouldn't count for much). Where's that toilet smilie?? :556: :114:

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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by jundocohen » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:21 pm

The internet and smart phones are tools, like a hammer ... they can be used constructively, or to do harm. All in moderation.

Once again, the lute strings are best not too tight, not too loose. Post and communicate, but avoid to be attached or addicted in doing so.

Similar objections and worries were raised when the printing press ... and even writing ... were introduced to spread the Dharma.

This way beyond words and letters has always been among the most literate and text bound, and the bookshelves on "Zen" overflow. Post, but do not be attached to one's posts.

Gassho, J
Teacher at Treeleaf Zendo, a Soto Zen Sangha, an online practice place for folks who cannot commute to a Zen Center due to health, living in remote areas, work or family needs. The focus is Shikantaza 'Just Sitting' Zazen http://www.treeleaf.org

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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by KeithA » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:45 pm

Dan74 wrote:
For this unenlightened sod...
Do you mean "Sillyus Soddus"? Sorry, couldn't resist. :106:

As to the topic, the worst part is going back to read what I wrote in the past. That's when I see my bs just staring me in the face. I probably post 1% of what I am actually thinking. Hanging around these forums is it's own kind of practice, for sure.

_/|\_
You make, you get.

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fuki
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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by fuki » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:00 pm

KeithA wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:45 pm

As to the topic, the worst part is going back to read what I wrote in the past. That's when I see my bs just staring me in the face.
I love it, reading stuff back I see how views over time constantly change, which is a sign eh? ;)

now the idea that what I write back is or is not "my view" is another sign. When attentive it shows that how the sense of a person(ality) comes into being-time, so whether it is/was bs or not doesn't matter at all. I love reading my bs, I'm not tainted by it. :109:

As Dogen/Jundo wrote somewhere else, "moments" dont obstruct moments, there's no such thing as an unchanging cause of time, same applies to our so called past, present, future wisdom or bullshit. :D

#crazy fuki wisdom (I need to bookmark this for in 365 days and have a good laugh)

1% is a bit low Keith, but whatever you say or dont say, deemed bs or not, I wont lock you up in a mental picture as foolish or wise, this or that, for that too is as changeful as the weather. :106:
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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by Great Sage EofH » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:59 pm

fuki wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:33 pm
SunWuKong wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:37 pm
? It's not what the self-attached say, it's what they leave out...
Think I know what you mean but could you elaborate?

One of the best advices I ever got from gg was; "dont worry about the dream of others, understand your own" or something in that spirit. :D
The classic case of leaving something out is someone who tries to explain Samadhi but doesn't know to explain that it can't be explained. This explains to me that they don't know it.
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by fuki » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:09 pm

SunWuKong wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:59 pm
The classic case of leaving something out is someone who tries to explain Samadhi but doesn't know to explain that it can't be explained. This explains to me that they don't know it.
Have a sudden urge to taste tomato soup :D

I get what you mean now, thanks.
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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by guo gu » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:46 pm

thanks for all of your posts and honesty, guys.

to recognize self-attachment, here're a start of a list on how to recognize it. the poster tend to (be):

defensive
dogmatic
rigid in opinions/views
exaggerated
happy when other agree, defensive when other don't agree
repetitive in positing his/her views
narrow minded
miss what is being said/asked
praise oneself and criticize others
random, disconnected to others
insensitive to others
take sides

there are others, like using harsh language, etc. but feel free to ad to the list or add examples.

someone could also start a list of characteristics of unself-centered posts.

it's a practice... we all can benefit.

be well,
guo gu

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fuki
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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by fuki » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:59 pm

guo gu wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:46 pm
someone could also start a list of characteristics of unself-centered posts.
I'd rather not due to the "danger" of spiritual bypassing, imitation, projections of mind i.e. "the unselfish self" as though you could make a fish unfish, there are no fish, love remains. :D
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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by boda » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:00 am

guo gu wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:46 pm
thanks for all of your posts and honesty, guys.

to recognize self-attachment, here're a start of a list on how to recognize it. the poster tend to (be):

defensive
dogmatic
rigid in opinions/views
exaggerated
happy when other agree, defensive when other don't agree
repetitive in positing his/her views
narrow minded
miss what is being said/asked
praise oneself and criticize others
random, disconnected to others
insensitive to others
take sides

there are others, like using harsh language, etc. but feel free to ad to the list or add examples.

someone could also start a list of characteristics of unself-centered posts.

it's a practice... we all can benefit.

be well,
guo gu
Selfish/selfless is relatively easy to intuitively sense. I doubt making a list of which characteristics are naughty or nice could help much, other than to perhaps polarize characteristics and separate them from the complex situations in which they may occur.

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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by lobster » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:14 am

guo gu wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:46 pm

someone could also start a list of characteristics of unself-centered posts.

it's a practice... we all can benefit.

be well,
guo gu
Tee hee. Little benefit in silence. :110:

Stop playing the part. Nobody benefits :hatsoff:

So here is the list: Deleted! :559:

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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by lindama » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:37 am

Both sides now....

have to agree Bodhi, yet Guo Gu's list can serve some. On the other hand, my dear friend Oushi would go nuts about dumbing down for beginners...

For myself, I was in process before I started with zen or Tibetans who call it preliminary practices or ngondro. I'm not referring to psychology which is a mindset more or less. So, the idea of ngondro made no sense for this ol girl. By the time I got here and there in my 40's, I had started with my first teacher, a self-realized teacher who cut thru ideas of self and such, like self-attachment. The essence of meditation has this potential, yet we usually need a map. He would have taken this list and used it as a perspective from a child's view. More radical, it's not hard to see most of civilization as possessing a child's consciousness in part... we have many voices within. For all that I have seen, i have only acquired an eye to see it in others and sometimes in myself. an open heart asks for no more. I am far from a so-called perfect person, blessed be. This world is inviting us all. My zen teacher used to say, we are not a self-improvement project. thats a koan, nothing more. :111:

but, never mind, at this point, I am practicing my crane posture in qigong, working up to standing on one foot for crane to move into summer heat.

linda

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lindama
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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by lindama » Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:08 am

oh gee, Clyde just posted this over in music... but think it could speak here too. For those of you who need references, Leonard Cohen had a nearly life long connection to Sasaki Roshi who I was fortunate to see several times when he was !03 in a sesshin at Cobb Mtn..... I was a visitor, open to all visitors. Our dear friend Gregory was in the sesshin. Such generosity!! Several years ago, the whole area including the center burned down in CA fires. so it goes.


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