self-attachment in posts

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desert_woodworker
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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by desert_woodworker » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:35 pm

guo gu wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:42 pm
do you all recognize the workings of self-referentiality, self-attachment on the internet (forum) space? in principles, what are the signs? characteristics? pls share.
I'd say post what comes to you. Others who reply to you may help you to reduce self-attachment, if it's clear in a post that there is self-attachment.

Ultimately, attachment to (a) self dissolves only at awakening, and with the dawning of true Wisdom, prajna. Ultilization of a "self" (although NOT attachment to it!) is something that is also a skilful-means, and can help save sentient beings. But you know all this.

I don't find this thread going anywhere useful. Sorry, Guo Gu! Luv ya, but... .

--Joe
:namaste:
Last edited by desert_woodworker on Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Best wishes for strong practice!

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desert_woodworker
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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by desert_woodworker » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:41 pm

Oh, hiya,
Wayfarer wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:40 pm
Buddhists generally need to be mindful of 'attachment to views', or strong opinions that are held on emotional grounds.
Mere-mortals "need" this, too. That is, if I'm, err-r, not mistaken. :|

But let's not ever leave "emotion" out of it, 'k?

Good to see you here, :)

--Joe
Best wishes for strong practice!

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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by Wayfarer » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:38 am

You too Joe, greetings :waving:
The most important thing is not at all important.

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Dan74
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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by Dan74 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:47 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:35 pm
guo gu wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:42 pm
do you all recognize the workings of self-referentiality, self-attachment on the internet (forum) space? in principles, what are the signs? characteristics? pls share.
I'd say post what comes to you. Others who reply to you may help you to reduce self-attachment, if it's clear in a post that there is self-attachment.

Ultimately, attachment to (a) self dissolves only at awakening, and with the dawning of true Wisdom, prajna. Ultilization of a "self" (although NOT attachment to it!) is something that is also a skilful-means, and can help save sentient beings. But you know all this.

I don't find this thread going anywhere useful. Sorry, Guo Gu! Luv ya, but... .

--Joe
:namaste:
I don't know how you evaluate that a thread is not going anywhere useful, Joe. I found it useful.

Ultimately, shmaltimately... Before the Ultimate, the Dissolution, yaddayaddayadda, we can either run on autopilot or bring awareness to it. I take GG's post as doing just that - a reminder to bring awareness to what we do here, rather than go through the familiar motions. Is that not useful?

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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by fuki » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:59 am

Dan74 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:47 pm

Ultimately, shmaltimately... Before the Ultimate, the Dissolution, yaddayaddayadda, we can either run on autopilot or bring awareness to it. I take GG's post as doing just that - a reminder to bring awareness to what we do here, rather than go through the familiar motions. Is that not useful?
Last few weeks I've been re-reading Sheng Yen's commentary on the Song of Mind, wonderful book te keep returning to and be aware of subtle attachments often not noticed in daily activities. This thread made by Guo Gu certainly "brought awareness" so to speak. Just wonderful pointers/checkers instead of reasoning or philosophy. Reading now with a cup of coffee and a blue sky on the horizon on the 7th floor. All's well.
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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by desert_woodworker » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:14 pm

Dan,
Dan74 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:47 pm
I don't know how you evaluate that a thread is not going anywhere useful, Joe. I found it useful.
Well, that "not knowing" is not my fault, Dan. :hatsoff:

All that "vortex" stuff was highly overdone at ZFI, in a fat thread. Done with it, I'd hoped, and hope now. On to better things, pull-ease-se?

Granted, I love my Dharma-Brother Guo Gu to pieces. But, give it a rest, already. Surely, there are other topics that can engage folks. It's a big Universe, "out" there, and in "here", and there might even be a Universe-of-Universes, we Astronomers dunno for sure, just yet. Early days... . ;)

w/ v. best rgds,

--Joe

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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by michaeljc » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:02 am

The OP made me stop and think: How much self attachment is in my posts?

Mind: how many postings do not have a degree of self attachment?

Tough question to answer

If one was fully cautious one would not post at all!

m

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lindama
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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by lindama » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:14 am

caution to the wind.... post if you must... better then any teacher!! that is, if you look.

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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by fuki » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:35 am

michaeljc wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:02 am

If one was fully cautious one would not post at all!
How come one would not Mike?
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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by fuki » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:36 am

lindama wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:14 am
caution to the wind.... post if you must... better then any teacher!! that is, if you look.
:bow2:
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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by Meido » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:58 pm

michaeljc wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:02 am
The OP made me stop and think: How much self attachment is in my posts?

Mind: how many postings do not have a degree of self attachment?

Tough question to answer

If one was fully cautious one would not post at all!

m
As we are deluded beings, it all has some degree of at least subtle self-attachment. The call is just to examine, as best one can, one's intentions for posting. That is sufficient caution.

My personal thoughts regarding posting trends we have been seeing:

Asserting one's own insight/attainment is almost always a rather distasteful motivation.

Correcting others can be done with correct motivation, but when repetitive or compulsive betrays itself to be something else.

~ Meido
The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice
Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org
Madison, WI Rinzai Zen Community [機山龍源寺] - http://www.madisonrinzaizen.org
The Rinzai Zen Community - http://www.rinzaizen.org

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Re: self-attachment in posts

Post by fuki » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:22 pm

Meido wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:58 pm

Being deluded beings, it all has some degree of at least subtle self-attachment.

The call is just to examine, as best one can, one's intentions for posting. That is sufficient caution.

~ Meido
I do notice you only post "responding to causes and conditions" (when called for) for instance and seem to have no self-referential motive in posting. (just my imagination ofcourse can't say to "know Meido" especially since we never met.

I do notice the difference when arising, but as a side-note fear of being not looked upon as self-referential (or wise/foolish) I'd say then remaining "silent" is in the same cycle of avoiding and grasping. There is no "letting go of I" without being fearless ofcourse, it's always related. So "non-dwelling" seems good and then see what gets exposed or not. Not sure about the word "caution" there are reasonable limits ofcourse, if you know you're being an "ass" or vexate ppl and still just go for it. But that's the gross version, the subtle version is harder to see.

I also "enjoy" watching how all 3 teachers on this forum respond to things differently. Forums that might have 1 teacher active there's always the danger of ppl mimicking behaviour out of the same desire and fear's gravitational force which pulls us deeper into the delusions we embrace. So "personally" I'd say post or dont post, just dont dwell on it before or after but still look. Again there are limits ofcourse.

I always chuckle when I see ppl writing mails, it takes so long because they're overthinking how others might feel or think when reading this or that, whole sentences get deleted and re-written out of fear how others might see us. Doubt ppl on zen forums have the same neurotics but who knows, to me there's grace in failing, in falling. Since being "selfless" isn't something I can do ;)
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