Dangers of Zazen

Discussion of Zen Buddhism, Soto Zen, Rinzai Zen, Chan, Seon and Thien.

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fuki
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Re: Dangers of Zazen

Post by fuki » Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:43 pm

Meido wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:02 pm
I do not comment on you here, Fuki.

But people who say things like this are very many. People who have indeed accomplished the exhaustive practice of fully actualizing what is in truth signified by "daily life and practice is not separate" are very few.
My root teacher also confirmed it's a rarity, let me put it differently before my words are perceived as a "claim" again (I cant post on DW anymore for instance because posts are seen as "attainments") It is not seen (or thought of) as seperate (or non-seperate) since everything is (an opportunity for) practise, I dont mean a personal choice like "oh let's practise now (or not practise) on the bus" It simply just "happens/is"

Thanks for not commenting on me btw but I still want to express that I dont make claims to fully actualize this in accordance with your (Zen) experience. It is just something I say because it's true for me. It's not a thought or a mental assertion, the words only appear in relation to reading words on zenspace. No claim.
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desert_woodworker
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Re: Dangers of Zazen

Post by desert_woodworker » Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:06 pm

Ohayo, Jundo,
jundocohen wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:39 am
Whence does one run from or to. as there is no place to go and all is ever thus?
It's OK. On our conditioning-runs on the quarter-mile track, one comes back to the starting point every quarter-mile.

Or if one trains cross-country, you always come home again at night, having displaced oneself to no new territory or clime, no. It's the running, the training, that one needs naturally under one's belt, just like food and water. I say this feels that we are in agreement, and wearing the same team-uniform, Jundo, but maybe you see ragged seams in my track-suit.

--Joe
Last edited by desert_woodworker on Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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michaeljc
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Re: Dangers of Zazen

Post by michaeljc » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:14 pm

Just an observation of my "own foolishness" not in anyway connected or projected upon zenspace.
Fuki -

To me your story is one of evolution. Without a and b, c may not have occurred

The journey is more important than reaching the destination - what?

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fuki
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Re: Dangers of Zazen

Post by fuki » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:49 pm

michaeljc wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:14 pm

Fuki -

To me your story is one of evolution. Without a and b, c may not have occurred
Michael, yes thanks I feel it is so. ❄
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
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Nothing
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Re: Dangers of Zazen

Post by Nothing » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:55 pm

fuki wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:46 am
Nothing wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:03 am
I do not think that there are dangers if a lay practitioner is sitting more than 2 hours daily as long one practices the method given by her/his teacher.
I'm attending a birthday party today for a few hours where I'll probably be the only sober one. Daily life and practise is not seperate imo, same applies to riding on the bus or whatever. It's all "sitting" (non-abiding) unless one believes there's a person who picks and chooses to sit on a zafu at home for a few hours and calls that "practise" and considers sitting on a bus or in a bar "non-practise"

Ofcourse there are differences but differences are never in opposition, sometimes my cat sits on a chair, sometimes on a couch, when sitting on a chair it does not think "I'm not sitting on a couch" But humans via the ("spiritual") ego construct can sit too much imo, there was a time when I was fed up with sitting up to 6-8 hours a day in quest for my "spiritual" ego and saw the futility and gave up on practise for years, I thought it better to spend those selfish sitting hours and help out lonely elderly and sick people and serving in animal shelters instead. Years later practise manifested naturally and spontaneously again.

Just an observation of my "own foolishness" not in anyway connected or projected upon zenspace.
Fuki, welcome to the club, here is a fellow who have always been sober on birthday parties. :D

Yes, practice on the cushion should be taken to daily life, but in my imo for most in order for that to be actualised more zazen is always welcome, if the effort is right and zazen is not for building up spiritual ego and a mean to escape from the everyday problems.

Btw I am not saying that what you shared does not make sense and of course it won't be same for all.

Thank you for sharing your experience :namaste:

Viktor

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fuki
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Re: Dangers of Zazen

Post by fuki » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:19 pm

Thanks Viktor, you too for sharing.

We have a great "club" and refuge here to keep each other "save/sober" eventhough all beings are "in" the same "club" ofcourse.

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Dangers of Zazen

Post by desert_woodworker » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:32 pm

Zazen?

I still call zazen "the indispensable one-thirteenth part of Zen Buddhist practice". It's a part of the "Baker's Dozen" of practices that I wrote about at ZFI, where others joined the thread.

We added some practices in that old thread, and I think the count came up to 26 nameable practices at one point: two Baker's Dozen(s). But that growing number does not water-down the importance of zazen (and, some would hasten to add, correct zazen).

I hope that members here and new members joining are not confused or repulsed by two threads at the top of the list that seem to call into question the value and absolute centrality of zazen.

--Joe
Last edited by desert_woodworker on Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fuki
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Re: Dangers of Zazen

Post by fuki » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:39 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:32 pm
I hope that members here and new members joining are not confused or repulsed by two threads at the top of the list that seem to call the value and centrality of zazen into question.
Pretty sure that interweb users know that discussions at the top are momentary and arise due to conditions, like discussions at the diner table or, the music hitlists. If ppl practise correctly the topics will be "self-liberated" or forgotten by new "hot" topics :P

Blue sky in Zandvoort even when cloudy :cat:
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ol' spikey

Re: Dangers of Zazen

Post by ol' spikey » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:38 am

fuki wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:46 am

I'm attending a birthday party today for a few hours where I'll probably be the only sober one.
Immediately, this becomes a suspicious deflective defense.
fuki wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:46 am
Daily life and practise is not seperate imo, same applies to riding on the bus or whatever. It's all
"sitting" (non-abiding) unless one believes there's a person who picks and chooses to sit on a zafu at home for a few hours and calls that "practise" and considers sitting on a bus or in a bar "non-practise"
Sitting in a bar is not "just sitting"

alcohol is harm

Consuming it is not zen/zazen practice

You have the power to be sober

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fuki
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Re: Dangers of Zazen

Post by fuki » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:34 am

ol' spikey wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:38 am

Immediately, this becomes a suspicious deflective defense.
I do practise over 2 hours per day + I'm sober, so please be clear about the perceived "deflection"
That part you quoted was in the context of life/practise not being seperate, and that any place is/can be a place for practise. In the context of zazen, it can be practised in any location, not fixed to sanghas or homes.

Sitting in a bar is not "just sitting"

alcohol is harm

Consuming it is not zen/zazen practice
Hard to have a open conversation with such "absolutes"
If "just sitting" is about a "location" or "dwelling place" then I agree it's not "just sitting" at all, though I can't speak for others nor for zen/zazen. I leave that to other "authorities"

Not consuming it is also not zen/zazen practise. ;)
You have the power to be sober
Luckily I don't need power for that, though I've used similair words to motivate others.

If you want to continue the alcohol topic, continued with non-suspicious minds, best to start a new thread I think.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

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ol' spikey

Re: Dangers of Zazen

Post by ol' spikey » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:55 pm

Wonderful!

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