A Definition of Enlightenment

Discussion of Zen Buddhism, Soto Zen, Rinzai Zen, Chan, Seon and Thien.

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boda
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Re: A Definition of Enlightenment

Post by boda » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:29 am

clyde wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:00 am
My understanding is that the Eightfold Path has no beginning or end, and the three categories are for our convenience.
It would certainly be inconvenient to try follow a path without a path, or without a beginning and specifications of any kind.
In any case, one cannot see the harm one is doing without understanding suffering, and one cannot understand suffering without the insight that arises from meditation.
My point is that the Brazier line relates to part of The Path and not the entire Path, simply

Caodemarte
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Re: A Definition of Enlightenment

Post by Caodemarte » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:31 am

clyde wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:00 am
. . . one cannot understand suffering without the insight that arises from meditation.
ol' spikey wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:26 am
This statement reflects Buddhist orthodoxy, but it is just an hypothesis....
Buddhism is just a path, a way, that uses meditation. That doesn't mean it is the only way.
As I understand, most orthodox Mahayana Buddhism, if not all Buddhism, and very specifically Zen Buddhism, hold that one cannot understand suffering without the insight that arises from meditation as a hypothesis that must be proven by the individual, and that Buddhism is just a path, but is not the only way.

As an aside on Catholicism,
ol' spikey wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:26 am
...Similarly, I was taught that Catholic orthodoxy posits that you can't be with God in heaven unless you are baptized.
You may have been taught about baptism, but that is certainly not at least current Catholic orthodoxy. See https://www.catholic.com/index.php/qa/i ... ion-or-not which cites 1257 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

[Addition: However. I have been reminded that A fuller discussion of Catholic theology should be held elsewhere.]

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