Psychodelics and Buddhism: Lion Roar article and Brad Warner's response + a few thoughts

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Psychodelics and Buddhism: Lion Roar article and Brad Warner's response + a few thoughts

Post by Dan74 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:36 am

https://www.lionsroar.com/the-new-wave- ... -practice/

http://hardcorezen.info/lions-roar-has- ... dhism/5945

Read the articles first.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say 'not always so.' Yes, of course Buddhist practice doesn't require psychedelics, but is psychedelic use always wrong-headed and harmful?

In Buddhism, as far as I can tell, intention, motivation are key. If psychedelic use is motivated by seeking special experiences, it is wrong-headed. It sounds like this was what it was like this during the counter-culture era.

But if there are sincere vows behind it, if a practitioner, for instance, has battled for years against the same blockages/obstructions and whether due to their stubborn karma, their teacher's inability to help, or whatever, resorts to a thoughtful use of psychedelics, with proper preparation, etc, this could possibly be beneficial, no? Psychedelics can budge things, dislodge a rutted perspective. They can't replace committed practice.

So yeah, the self-obsessed hipster use of psychedelics is unlikely to do any good, though even self-obsessed hipsters may be shaken out of their narcissism. But with the right intention, is their use still wrong? I am not so sure.

Of course, even with the right intention, we may do something that is unwise. Thinking something is going to be helpful for practice, whereas it is more likely to be harmful. I cannot be objective here. I've used psychedelics on 3 occasions in my whole life, spanning quite a few years. My sense is that it was helpful the first time only, when an ancient way of being opened up - vibrant, fearless, where happiness was not a question. It was fascinating to experience life through such a different perspective. Shortly after I started meditating. But who knows, maybe it also caused harm in ways I am not aware of.

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Re: Psychodelics and Buddhism: Lion Roar article and Brad Warner's response + a few thoughts

Post by Pablo » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:07 pm

Hey Dan,

I thought you were linking to another article Brad had wrote a couple of weeks ago, but it seems it's a new one. Brad has a reason to be mad. What most of those guys say is a deep misunderstanding of Buddhism. Scary.

I've never tried psychedelics myself. The people I've known that took them weren't inspiring at all, and when done in a "spiritual" setting, they would always be very attached to the so-called insights they saw under the effects of the drug. I think Ajahn Sucitto is dead on when he says: "[Psychedelics] do indicate that the reality constructed by the senses is just that, a kind of spell that we’re born under, but they don’t reveal how that spell is cast, nor how to come out of it. In fact, they cast another spell, the spell of a shift of perception". In other words, whatever the drug shows us is just as false as what we take our (normal) selves to be, but somehow people who take drugs tend to take these experiences at face value and forget that they, also, are a product of mind.
Dan74 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:36 am
But if there are sincere vows behind it, if a practitioner, for instance, has battled for years against the same blockages/obstructions and whether due to their stubborn karma, their teacher's inability to help, or whatever, resorts to a thoughtful use of psychedelics, with proper preparation, etc, this could possibly be beneficial, no? Psychedelics can budge things, dislodge a rutted perspective. They can't replace committed practice.
I don't think we can judge anyone's intention, other than our own. And even that is many times clouded by our delusion, so I wouldn't bet hard on "right intention" most of the time. It's best to be cautious with this.

The question you ask is full of "ifs" and imagined circumstances that work to frame the question in a certain way. That's the kind of discourse the people quoted in the article have. This reminds me of philosophical dilemmas like the trolley problem and things like that. You're asked to think about a particular problem with particular conditions that put you in the position of having to make only two choices, both of them wrong. The thing is that the particular framing that these philosophers feed us is not all that is happening and, perhaps, when faced with that same problem, we would choose a third option, that was not available in the framing of the dilemma.

In other words. When faced with years of blockages/obstructions, or experiencing a "plateau" of practice as some people in the article mention, why would I turn to psychedelics? Aren't there plenty of other safe, tested methods in the corpus of Buddhist teachings? What is the motivation behind this choice? I think it would be best to investigate this appeal for psychedelics, and what's behind it. What do I want to achieve? What is lacking in my practice? It seems wiser to investigate the source of the problem, instead of trying to escape it with a new, better, brighter alternative.

As my teacher Jeff likes to point out in practically all his retreats: right here, right now, we have everything we need. What is lacking?
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Re: Psychodelics and Buddhism: Lion Roar article and Brad Warner's response + a few thoughts

Post by Anders » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:15 pm

Succito is dead on with that description, although that quote alone I think does not account for the psychological benefits such a shift in perspective can induce.

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Re: Psychodelics and Buddhism: Lion Roar article and Brad Warner's response + a few thoughts

Post by fuki » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:34 pm

From "I am That" chapter 86

M: No doubt, a drug that can affect your brain can also affect your mind, and give you all the strange experiences promised.

But what are all the drugs compared to the drug that gave you this most unusual experience of being born and living in sorrow and fear, in search of happiness, which does not come, or does not last.

You should enquire into the nature of this drug and find an antidote.
Birth, life, death -- they are one.
Find out what had caused them.
Before you were born, you were already drugged.
What kind of drug was it?
You may cure yourself of all diseases, but if you are still under the influence of the primordial drug, of what use are the superficial cures?

Q: Is it not karma that causes rebirth?

M: You may change the name, but the fact remains.
What is the drug which you call karma or destiny?
It made you believe yourself to be what you are not.
What is it, and can you be free of it?

Before you go further you must accept, at least as a working theory, that you are not what you appear to be, that you are under the influence of a drug.
Then only will you have the urge and the patience to examine the symptoms and search for their common cause.
All that a Guru can tell you is: 'My dear Sir, you are quite mistaken about yourself.
You are not the person you think yourself to be.
Trust nobody, not even yourself.

Search, find out, remove and reject every assumption till you reach the living waters and the rock of truth.
Until you are free of the drug, all your religions and sciences, prayers and Yogas are of no use to you, for based on a mistake, they strengthen it.
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Re: Psychodelics and Buddhism: Lion Roar article and Brad Warner's response + a few thoughts

Post by Anders » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:36 pm

Pablo wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:07 pm
In other words. When faced with years of blockages/obstructions, or experiencing a "plateau" of practice as some people in the article mention, why would I turn to psychedelics? Aren't there plenty of other safe, tested methods in the corpus of Buddhist teachings? What is the motivation behind this choice? I think it would be best to investigate this appeal for psychedelics, and what's behind it. What do I want to achieve? What is lacking in my practice? It seems wiser to investigate the source of the problem, instead of trying to escape it with a new, better, brighter alternative.
I think you are framing it wrongly here. You seem to be assuming psychedelics as a "path", something that one would keep returning to regularly as a "brighter" alternative, as opposed to something one would try a few times over a period of time to help unlock some blockages.

The appeal to psychedelics for some is not so much the highs and visions, but rather the longer term effect that such experiences can have on the psyche. I suspect the spiritual appeal is often the same as therapeutic appeal. Conventional methods have helped, but some obstacles remain unaddressed. "try more sincerely with the conventional, please" becomes almost puerile advice at some point.

Disclaimer. I've tried mushrooms once for therapeutic reasons to good effect and would probably do so again at some point for general "learning about life and consciousness" reasons. I don't consider it a path to awakening, but I do think it offers a lot of potential for opening a lot of stuck perspectives and loosening neurotic tendencies both spiritual and more otherwise, and think it can offer things to spiritual seekers the same way it has great potential for longterm depression. It moves things in the emotional and perceptual body over a long term (therapeutic effects last as long as 12 months). I wouldn't consider any kind of regular regimen with them, unless I was experiencing severe depression over an extended period without seeing real improvement from therapy. It took me many months to digest and work with just one experience.

Things like mushrooms are generally perfectly safe, fwiw. Fortunately, there is a lot of burgeoning scientific study being done on this.

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Re: Psychodelics and Buddhism: Lion Roar article and Brad Warner's response + a few thoughts

Post by narhwal90 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:05 pm

Having recently been in hospital after a motorcycle accident I can certainly attest to forms of psychedelic effects in this case as a consequence of continuing heavy doses of narcotics over 5 days and surgery. There were some auditory and some mental, I think such things could easily be latched onto as substantive. I experienced some degree the illusory character of reality as perceived by the senses.

In this case, once coming off that 5 day regimen and the digestive tract started showing signs of life I experienced a very interesting confusion of taste, smell and nausea. For a period of several days the combination of the smell of the various plastic tubes, basalmic vinegar in the food and the smell of the recovery ward I was in was nauseating. As digestion recovered the combination dissolved, I could still smell the plastic but the ward became less funky but by that point I was avoiding <any> trace of basalmic vinegar lol.

2 months later I stopped by the hospital to thank the docs and nurses and while working thru the maze of corridors to find the ICU I stumbled upon the funky smelling ward which had no discernable odor.

Which of the perceptions were real? That funky smelling ward was real at the time, air smelled fresher when I was wheeled out for xrays and funky as I was wheeled back in. Transcendent euphoria, which I also experienced, doesn't seem fundamentally different than the funky smell nausea. It seems to me the euphoric and unpleasant consequences of the drugs are as subject to attachment and aversion as any other experience.

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Re: Psychodelics and Buddhism: Lion Roar article and Brad Warner's response + a few thoughts

Post by Emmet » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:03 pm

Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away (the Haight-Ashbury in the 70's), I had extensive experience with psychedelics of all sorts. What would seem like truly mystical, divinely inspired, deep, penetrating insights into the true nature of life, the universe, & everything at 3:00AM almost invariably reverted to pathetic sophomoric drivel once the LSD wore off in the light of day. It's been my experience that chemically-induced makyo is a poor, sad substitute for genuine kenshō.

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Re: Psychodelics and Buddhism: Lion Roar article and Brad Warner's response + a few thoughts

Post by lindama » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:55 am

Long ago, millions upon millions years ago.... take the long view. This video is fascinating and long .... about 25 min, an interesting hypothesis....

Paul Stamets on mycelia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPqWstV ... e=youtu.be

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Re: Psychodelics and Buddhism: Lion Roar article and Brad Warner's response + a few thoughts

Post by Seeker242 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:57 am

I would not use as harsh language as he does but I agree with the jist of it. :) Sure, psychedelics can change your state of mind, but what they change it to is pretty much a crap shoot. People often say that psychedelics is what caused them to become spiritual and if they didn't take them they never would have. That's not a reasonable thing to say. It's illogical to say that because it employs fallacious reasoning, specifically "fallacy of the inverse". I don't think it's accurate to say that simply because a benefit appears, that alone validates the action that caused it as good. Stealing can have a good benefit too. If you steal some food you will then have some food. Having food is certainly beneficial! But that doesn't mean the action was a good action. Especially so when other actions, that don't have a potential for causing harm, can lead to the same or similar benefits.

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Re: Psychodelics and Buddhism: Lion Roar article and Brad Warner's response + a few thoughts

Post by fuki » Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:02 am

Seeker242 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:57 am
I would not use as harsh language as he does but I agree with the jist of it. :) Sure, psychedelics can change your state of mind, but what they change it to is pretty much a crap shoot. People often say that psychedelics is what caused them to become spiritual and if they didn't take them they never would have.
Yeah that's juts silly, just think "tiger" or "flower" and notice the chemical change in the body-mind, arising thoughts/feelings change all day without knowing the origin of them or inquiring about the source of mind/being/existence, everyday mental constructs which are a superimpositon on immediate presence which due to indentification with these construct arise in the form of judgments, opinions, beliefs, and fantasies of interpretation on perception are the drug we already are "infected" with, for those who practise true inquiry or true meditation we refrain from identification to mental constructs but instead grant attention to this immediate presence, the mind becomes quiescent. There's nothing "spiritual" about taking drugs nor identifying with modifications of consciousness, that's just a "spiritual ego" There's no such thing as becoming spiritual, that's the same identity fetish as becoming enlightened, one can never become what one "IS".
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Re: Psychodelics and Buddhism: Lion Roar article and Brad Warner's response + a few thoughts

Post by Pablo » Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:41 am

Anders wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:36 pm
I think you are framing it wrongly here. You seem to be assuming psychedelics as a "path", something that one would keep returning to regularly as a "brighter" alternative, as opposed to something one would try a few times over a period of time to help unlock some blockages.
Hmmm, no, I didn't mean that. I meant basically what fuki quoted from Nisargadatta before.

For the record, I am glad that mushrooms helped you therapeutically. And if responsible research shows that indeed these drugs help people with mental disorders or difficult psychological issues, that's great news.

But this has nothing to do with Zen. As soon as my mind has the thought "Oh, I'm stuck, maybe I should try psychedelics to unlock this blockage", I'm turning my attention outside instead of inward. I repeat: what is lacking, right here, right now? No need for drugs, special practices, koans, initiations, enlightened teachers to show us the way. Who is stuck? Who wants to get out of it? As Linji would say: "Look! Look!"
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Re: Psychodelics and Buddhism: Lion Roar article and Brad Warner's response + a few thoughts

Post by lindama » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:00 pm

well, ofc, we all have our own POVs as we see here. I haven't read the OP material so I offer my limited pov. Psycadelics are not part of my past. I know many ppl who say they are. From my experience, expanded consciousness does not need drugs or meditation, tho they can potentiate experience depending on the person. Like the living waters, they make us more of who we are.... including our individual proclivities. The biggest diff seems to be the context. Meditation sets up an ecosystem whereas drugs are often mistaken as party time.... except when set up in a sacred context.

I had a brief experience with peyote with a medicine man in my 50's. He set it up as a truth serum, not for hallucinations. Healing was profound.... trauma and abuse that meditation is not intended for. Healing is interconnected, I was affected by others tho their issues were not mine. Everyone was. For me, I was well into self-discovery (haha) yet I found that the dark, solid spot in my heart lifted after a lifetime. who can say why.

If you take the 2+ hours to listen to the video I posted above, it sets a broader content for our interconnections, just as mycelia is interconnected. Seems a similar pattern to zen. Plant substances/psilocybin are being studied. They are shown to heal and regenerate the nervous system, potentiate standard cancer treatments, provide antidotes for small pox and a virus that is killing bees worldwide. These substances deserve our respect.... the conversation is so much bigger than what they did for ME and my awakening. Paul Stemets talks about how they heal with examples and studies in the video. He is a scientist and a great human.

linda

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Re: Psychodelics and Buddhism: Lion Roar article and Brad Warner's response + a few thoughts

Post by Dan74 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:05 pm

Very interesting responses, Folks, and thank you for sharing your story, narwhal, as a fellow rider, it hit just a bit deeper, hope you're OK now.


Pablo, when you say 'it's not Zen', it rings of Spiritual Bypassing for me, are you familiar with the term? One of the teachers I've had the privilege to know and study under, having completed numerous long-term arduous retreats under some of the best teachers of our time, after coming back and living a life far away from the Dharma Centre, the Monastery and fellow practitioners, a secular environment that places no value on the Dharma, a life of bills and dodgy builders, of whacky demanding students and having to making ends meet, found that the amazing insights about the nature of mind did not always equip one 100% with dealing with this ordinary hurly-burly. And those doubts and loneliness can still surge up and threaten to overwhelm one. You may be past all that, or you may be just riding the wave of an ecstatic experience, supported by a myriad things you take for granted. I don't know. But beware.

Emmet, I guess people also have different experiences on psychedelics - a friend quit smoking after her first experience. I don't think she had a second actually. But essentially I do agree with the critics that it is no substitute for practice and both Ajahn Succito and Shugen Arnold raise aboslutely valid points. Still, I can imagine it dislodging a stubborn obstacle for some. It is just not a panacea, nor a shortcut. Perhaps things that truly matter are things that we've worked hard to earn. Even if at the end of the hard work, we realise it's been here all along!

Will try to get to respond to the others asap...

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Re: Psychodelics and Buddhism: Lion Roar article and Brad Warner's response + a few thoughts

Post by lindama » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:26 pm

PS: generally agree with Brad tho he went FULL STOP, a bit overboard, as is his proclivity.... an "unbelievable idiotic article". Lion's makes it sound like everyone is.... not true. I know peeps across many sanghas, not happening. huh.... why are these teachers not questioning how useful meditation really is and how useful our modern cultural addictions (non-drug) are.

Living near SFO, many teachers I know directly and indirectly admit to these experiences in their youth. They all chuckle about it these days. As far as I can see, none are living examples of the benefits.... oops, judgement creeping in. Blinded by authority and position, some will conclude there was benefit. Not for me to judge at anyone's inner experience. I'm looking at the manifest.

all in all, there is a place for the experience as Dan says. As I see it this conversation is not about the value of psycodelics, but their place in practice.

miss you Boda, we're on your turf :111:

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Re: Psychodelics and Buddhism: Lion Roar article and Brad Warner's response + a few thoughts

Post by fuki » Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:43 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:05 pm
Very interesting responses, Folks, and thank you for sharing your story, narwhal, as a fellow rider, it hit just a bit deeper, hope you're OK now.


Pablo, when you say 'it's not Zen', it rings of Spiritual Bypassing for me, are you familiar with the term? One of the teachers I've had the privilege to know and study under, having completed numerous long-term arduous retreats under some of the best teachers of our time, after coming back and living a life far away from the Dharma Centre, the Monastery and fellow practitioners, a secular environment that places no value on the Dharma, a life of bills and dodgy builders, of whacky demanding students and having to making ends meet, found that the amazing insights about the nature of mind did not always equip one 100% with dealing with this ordinary hurly-burly. And that doubts and loneliness can still surge and threaten to overcome one. You may be past all that, or you may be just riding the wave of an ecstatic experience, supported by a myriad things you take for granted. I don't know. By beware.

Emmet, I guess people also have different experiences on psychedelics - a friend quit smoking after her first experience. I don;t think she had a second actually. But essentially I do agree with the critics that it is no substitute for practice and both Ajahn Succito and Shugen Arnold raise aboslutely valid points. Still, I can imagine it dislodging a stubborn obstacle for some. It is just not a panacea, nor a shortcut. Perhaps things that truly matter are things that we've worked hard to earn. Even if at the end of the hard work, we realise it's been here all along!

Will try to get to respond to the others asap...
Dan; for the record, I'm sure psychadelics are in certain situations medicine, I know people who use them and also practise "Buddhism" I just don't see the link with Buddhism in the sense that it's somehow ok to incorporate them into Buddhism, for instance when I drank alcohol or smoked weed and also practised "Buddhism" that doesn't mean I see them as a part of Buddhist practise, I'm also not a (fixed) precept fan meaning people have an ideation that if you do this or that it's not Buddhism or somehow a "sin", practise or whatever "expedient in the wisdom tool-box" one incorporates into one's daily life/practise, everything not listed as an expedient means in Buddhism (or whatever tradition) is just not part of the toolbox, I just don't mix practise and expedients with other activities in daily life, I think the problem is always one's identity as a "Buddhist" Buddhism is a practise, taking drugs or watching tv or petting my cat we can also start a discussion about like "cats and Buddhism" or "tv and Buddhism" it's kind of moot to me, if drugs are used in personal life and one is identified as a "Buddhist" why should there be a discussion about psychadelics and Buddhism? I don't see how it's an expedient means in the toolbox of Buddhism, if it's a medicine in one's life, great but why identify that within a wisdom system such as Buddhism? I agree with Brad on that point that it is dangerous to do so and I don't like the ulterior motive and business behind it.
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Re: Psychodelics and Buddhism: Lion Roar article and Brad Warner's response + a few thoughts

Post by narhwal90 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:55 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:05 pm
Very interesting responses, Folks, and thank you for sharing your story, narwhal, as a fellow rider, it hit just a bit deeper, hope you're OK now.
Thanks Dan74- doing great, light exercise, a bit of jogging- off all painkillers now, even tylenol. Before the wreck I was doing flies with 20lb weights and a variety of pushups on the floor, now holding at 5lbs and inclined pushups while the scar tissue works itself out. Getting there... here's the new ride;

1999, 32k miles, jetted, upgraded fork valves and adjustable rear

Image


finishing working it up now, runs like a top. Can't ride for a couple more months while the spleen still healing. I haven't had the "going riding again" conversation with the family- that one is going to be... nuanced... though I'm sure they suspect something since the bike is in the garage lol- true that its not mine yet- no title or tags lol

but to put it back on topic- seems to me freedom is NOT needing to take drugs to enable some kind of experience. OTOH as was argued to me in the hospital, what is reality lacking that you feel the need to ride? ...and here I am prepping another bike and wondering how much longer I'll be stuck in the cage.

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Re: Psychodelics [sic] and Buddhism: Lion Roar article and Brad Warner's response + a few thoughts

Post by desert_woodworker » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:12 pm

"It's" Psychedelics... (sp.).

But the misspelling in the subject-line is a nice warning!

Just a comment: Drug use is not a Yoga.

Buddhist practice largely depends on a Yogic approach and continuance. It depends on thousands of hours of practice, not on micrograms or milligrams of this-or-that.

Our friend and Ch'an teacher Guo Gu has opined and asserted here, when it comes to Awakening, that "The key is samadhi". I agree, and I have agreed since 1979 with my teacher Sheng Yen. Sudden Awakening often can occur as samadhi breaks up suddenly.

Apples and oranges, when it comes to practice which conduces toward awakening: Yogic Practice does: drug use does not.

But if it's entertainment one wants -- or a deep scare -- or a skewed perspective, and lots of discomfort, psychedelics may be your ticket.

Practice is quite another thing: it concerns everyday life.

best,

--Joe

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Re: Psychodelics [sic] and Buddhism: Lion Roar article and Brad Warner's response + a few thoughts

Post by fuki » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:47 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:12 pm
"It's" Psychedelics... (sp.).

But the misspelling in the subject-line is a nice warning!

Just a comment: Drug use is not a Yoga.

Buddhist practice largely depends on a Yogic approach and continuance. It depends on thousands of hours of practice, not on micrograms or milligrams of this-or-that.

Our friend and Ch'an teacher Guo Gu has opined and asserted here, when it comes to Awakening, that "The key is samadhi". I agree, and I have agreed since 1979 with my teacher Sheng Yen. Sudden Awakening often can occur as samadhi breaks up suddenly.

Apples and oranges, when it comes to practice which conduces toward awakening: Yogic Practice does: drug use does not.

But if it's entertainment one wants -- or a deep scare -- or a skewed perspective, and lots of discomfort, psychedelics may be your ticket.

Practice is quite another thing: it concerns everyday life.

best,

--Joe
True words, Joe. :namaste:
Reminded me of this pic on Upaya's fb page today.
39629916_10156483484258076_2449813650165202944_n.jpg
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Re: Psychodelics [sic] and Buddhism: Lion Roar article and Brad Warner's response + a few thoughts

Post by Seeker242 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:27 am

desert_woodworker wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:12 pm

Just a comment: Drug use is not a Yoga.

Buddhist practice largely depends on a Yogic approach and continuance. It depends on thousands of hours of practice, not on micrograms or milligrams of this-or-that.
My teacher says similar things about altering your state of consciousness with substances for spiritual purposes, and compares it to shamanism. And then goes on to say that no, Buddhism is not shamanism.

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Re: Psychodelics and Buddhism: Lion Roar article and Brad Warner's response + a few thoughts

Post by Dan74 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:53 am

Joe, the phrase 'drug use' is off the mark, I feel. Firstly, psychedelics (thank you for the correction), are not drugs in the sense that heroin or cocaine, are drugs - they don't work to bring pleasure or entertainment. Secondly, we need to be careful about what we term 'yoga'.


Let me advance a little hypothesis. Many practitioners believe, rightly or wrongly, that the defilements run deeper in our times, the obstacles are more stubborn. It follows that what has worked in the past, may be insufficient for the modern homo sapiens. While I completely understand and share the distaste of people at the notion that popping a pill will advance one on their spiritual journey, let me jus say that one still needs to walk the path, especially post psychedelic experience. And our deep and justified suspicion of drugs has conditioned us to perhaps be more sceptical than warranted in this particular instance.

Suppose I suffer from fatigue and mood swings. I've worked hard to overcome them, therapy, yoga, Buddhist practice, diet, etc, all to very limited results (as far as fatigue and mood swings go). A routine brain scan after many years of going on like this shows a small benign tumour which after a course of drug therapy is shrunk. My fatigue and mood swings are gone. I have much more energy and a more positive attitude to my Buddhist practice and make serious progress.

I wager that few would object to the course of action in this scenario. And yet what is fundamentally different to the psychedelic one? One may well suffer from a psychological obstruction, something that will in the future be observable in the subtleties of brain architecture, perhaps, that psychedelics are able to help loosen. Is that not conceivable?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -knowledge

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... s-sale-lsd

That said, I really don't want to make it sound like psychedelics have to be a part of Buddhist practice nor even that they offer something important. Perhaps useful for some, they also carry risks and we should not lose perspective - there are many more important matters, IMO.

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