"I used to think X, but now I think Y... "

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Anders
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"I used to think X, but now I think Y... "

Post by Anders » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:59 am

This is a confession thread, or perhaps a reflection on progress or simply change thread. However you wish to take it. A thread about views or understandings about practise or Buddhism which we held as a matter of course for a long time, but no longer do.

Let's keep it clean and steer away from the hamster wheel of rebirth beliefs, the obnoxious ("I used to think soto was legit Dharma, but now I know better") and the facile ("I used to believe in a self, but then I kensho'ed").

I'll start. For a long time, I used to think that the body was more or less something the mind dragged around to experience the world with and that body meditation practises were basically training wheel methods for people who weren't ready to work with their minds.

Now I think the mind is more like a flowering expression of the body, which is in turn an expression of our true body. And a whole lot of the innate wisdom talked of is accessed naturally through the body freed of obstacles, which is basically always trying to do right by you, so long as the mind doesn't run interference on it. In that sense, it's more like a treasure house and really a locus of practise.

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fuki
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Re: "I used to think X, but now I think Y... "

Post by fuki » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:41 pm

I used to think there was a thinker behind thoughts, a believer behind beliefs. So I constantly altered between believing and non-believing so called thinking and non-thinking based on second hand knowledge from that sperm-consciousness, or birth-chemical, the child of ignorance, the root of the manifest world, hence I saw all beliefs and non-beliefs, all religion and philosophy were results of sperm knowledge. Now I only care about what matters most this very moment, which is Love.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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Dan74
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Re: "I used to think X, but now I think Y... "

Post by Dan74 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:33 pm

Whoah! I wouldn't even know where to start...

"I used to think I basically had it all figured out, but now I know that I don't have a clue..."


And maybe I should stop here..

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desert_woodworker
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Re: "I used to think X, but now I think Y... "

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:39 pm

Anders, I share the view you've expressed. It's one I've had or held since the early 1970s (about 1970; with intimations of it much earlier).

My Ch'an teacher Sheng Yen, who I met in Feb. 1979, seemed himself to honor this view (or reality... ) in his teaching, and I was blessed from the start to have him as my teacher, as I'd come to him already as a pretty thorough yogi (Ch'an student with an established yoga-practice). But even those who were not already yogis soon became pretty adept and healthy, and benefited from the physical practices Sheng Yen brought to us to supplement and enable meditation and relaxation. His way is/was really "a package-deal", with no treatment of body or mind separately. Not everyone's cup of tea!, who may have a bias toward the "one or the other".

best,

--Joe

ps (at first, your subject title made me think of Chromosomes). ;)

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michaeljc
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Re: "I used to think X, but now I think Y... "

Post by michaeljc » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:28 pm

I try to answer the question

What did I believe back then?

What do I believe now?

Sorry - its in the too hard basket :113:

M

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KeithA
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Re: "I used to think X, but now I think Y... "

Post by KeithA » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:41 pm

For me, the overwhelming belief I had in the beginning was that there was some kind of final destination, and if only I could get there, I would be happy.

These days, and I felt this way for quite a while, my sense is that it doesn't get any better than it is just now. :559:

_/|\_
Keith
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

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Dan74
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Re: "I used to think X, but now I think Y... "

Post by Dan74 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:11 pm

I don't feel I did justice to Anders and the sincere spirit of his thread, so I'm going to try again.

I used to think a Zen master was a kind of an Übermensch, but now I know they are a mixed bag, like the rest of us, with an important difference - they understand the mind much better.

I used to think enlightenment was a big wondrous thing out there to attain, but now I know that it is so close that we miss it moment-by-moment.

I used to think that I needed to be fixed and someone was going to come along and help me, and now.. I don't anymore.

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desert_woodworker
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Re: "I used to think X, but now I think Y... "

Post by desert_woodworker » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:19 pm

Here's a neat cartoon that encapsulates some of the notions out there. ;) --Joe
Dan74 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:11 pm
I used to think that I needed to be fixed and someone was going to come along and help me, and now.. I don't anymore.

un_scramble.jpg
un_scramble.jpg (58.61 KiB) Viewed 70 times

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

But let's not minimize the fact that Awakening is a real phenomenon and state of Life, and that it is worth working through the body as a way to enable and support the onset of a true awakening. Granted, correct zazen is already admittedly highly physical, but other physical practices are synergistic, and a real aid to zazen as well, and sensibly have remained a part of many Ch'an- and Zen- Buddhist lineages' formal communal, and individual, practice.

Hail!

--Joe

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