yunmen’s dried shit stick

Discussion of Zen Buddhism, Soto Zen, Rinzai Zen, Chan, Seon and Thien.
Aka spike

Re: yunmen’s dried shit stick

Post by Aka spike » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:28 am

desert_woodworker wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:17 pm
And -- unless you're a sundial -- Time and Tide wait for gnomon.

--Joe


diagram-of-a-sundial.jpg
Exactly the opposite: gnomon must wait for (dependently arises from) time 'n tide.

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michaeljc
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Re: yunmen’s dried shit stick

Post by michaeljc » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:56 am

Another way of interpreting it could be that the described item is past its usefulness for the described function

Just as Buddhism is, moment by moment

In truth I am never comfortable interpreting koans

It belittles them somehow - what?

I prefer the Rinzai approach - sit with it Bro/Sis. No answer will be the same, ever (cute :) )

Cheers
to all
M

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Re: yunmen’s dried shit stick

Post by lindama » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:19 pm

michaeljc wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:56 am
I prefer the Rinzai approach - sit with it Bro/Sis. No answer will be the same, ever (cute :) )
wise words Michael. it's not about answers and interpretations. Koans tell us about ourselves. A good teacher can smell it.

we could say this koan is for the smelly ones. Teachers smell roses.

linda

ps: my friend Shakti Das over on FB just posted this, timely.
"Your mind is highly preoccupied with what you want, so you fail to see what is" ~ Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche

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Re: yunmen’s dried shit stick

Post by Crystal » Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:12 pm

lindama wrote:
"Your mind is highly preoccupied with what you want, so you fail to see what is" ~ Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche
Which is advice Chogyam Trungpa should have taken himself, considering the shocking scandals that erupted around him and his Vajradhatu organisation - and then more recently with his son after it was re-named "Shambhala".


.

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Re: yunmen’s dried shit stick

Post by lindama » Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:14 pm

Crystal wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:12 pm
lindama wrote:
"Your mind is highly preoccupied with what you want, so you fail to see what is" ~ Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche
Which is advice Chogyam Trungpa should have taken himself, considering the shocking scandals that erupted around him and his Vajradhatu organisation - and then more recently with his son after it was re-named "Shambhala".
shit stick

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Re: yunmen’s dried shit stick

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:03 pm

Gnomon! (said a Rasta-guy).

--Joe

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Re: yunmen’s dried shit stick

Post by guo gu » Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:18 am

[james] wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:14 pm
Anders wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:43 am
Bit over the top to my mind, unless yunmen actually spent time in the company of a dried shit stick
I have a shitstick that I use on occasion, when necessary.
Let’s remember, though, that dried shit does not stick.
(unless already stuck before drying)
:113:

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Re: yunmen’s dried shit stick

Post by guo gu » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:21 am

yunmen's shitstick has proven to be nice trap through the gateless barrier!
what's this talk about all is buddha? being one with the stick? painful? difficult? compassionate?
as soon as the prefrontal cortex starts churning, the gate is closed
and, one's just--through and through--a simple shitstick!

where words do not reach
and discriminating mind ceases...
is where you throw away
this shitstick!

the problem are not words... but ppl are ensnared by shitstick.

be free,
guo gu

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Re: yunmen’s dried shit stick

Post by guo gu » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:53 am

guo gu wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:21 am
yunmen's shitstick has proven to be nice trap through the gateless barrier!
what's this talk about all is buddha? being one with the stick? painful? difficult? compassionate?
as soon as the prefrontal cortex starts churning, the gate is closed
and, one's just--through and through--a simple shitstick!

where words do not reach
and discriminating mind ceases...
is where you throw away
this shitstick!

the problem are not words... but ppl are ensnared by shitstick.

be free,
guo gu
what a shitstick!
:113:

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Re: yunmen’s dried shit stick

Post by Dan74 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:01 am

Ensnared seven times, get up eight. :oops: :100: :bow2: :bow2: :bow2:

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Re: yunmen’s dried shit stick

Post by fuki » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:48 pm

guo gu wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:21 am
the problem are not words... but ppl are ensnared by shitstick.
I sometimes call mom a kan-shiketsu, then she laughs and the churning dissolves.
I couldn't call her a (literal) shitstick because she'd lose the meaning and be offended, what a shitstick! :lol:
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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Re: yunmen’s dried shit stick

Post by Enver M. » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:03 pm

Buddha as i considered to be the full moon, (when it is said buddha i understand the full moon) is if a reverse of something it would be a shit stick at least geomatricaly.
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

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Re: yunmen’s dried shit stick

Post by Dan74 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:32 pm

Enver M. wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:03 pm
Buddha as i considered to be the full moon, (when it is said buddha i understand the full moon) is if a reverse of something it would be a shit stick at least geomatricaly.
I have no idea what you're saying.

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Re: yunmen’s dried shit stick

Post by KeithA » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:56 pm

guo gu wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:15 am
a student of the way asked yunmen, “what is buddha?”
yunmen replied, “dried shitstick.”

what do you all think?
guo gu
Fortunately, it has nothing to do with a shit stick.

_/|\_
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

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Re: yunmen’s dried shit stick

Post by [james] » Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:33 am

Why “fortunately”?

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Enver M.
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Re: yunmen’s dried shit stick

Post by Enver M. » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:55 am

Some 15 years ago when I first begin reading and mining about zen i had read this koan.(I had a beginning mind and was carrying no extra knowledge in my mind.it was not like today.today everyday my mind is working to close all the each openning windows like in computer). and i had an idea of its mean.Now 15 years passed i learn and read and expand my knowledge (some) and see that I have lose my sight.i just can't portray what that koan means today.

Dan74 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:32 pm
Enver M. wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:03 pm
Buddha as i considered to be the full moon, (when it is said buddha i understand the full moon) is if a reverse of something it would be a shit stick at least geomatricaly.
I have no idea what you're saying.
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

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Dan74
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Re: yunmen’s dried shit stick

Post by Dan74 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:14 am

I understand. Suzuki Roshi said: "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few."

But it seems to me that the true beginner's mind isn't only free and open in regards to Zen and koans, but to every moment as it arises, every situation, every person, every action, no matter how trivial or life-changing. This openness and freedom are not what most of us naturally have - we get 'stuck' on things. Hence the need for practice.

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Enver M.
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Re: yunmen’s dried shit stick

Post by Enver M. » Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:16 pm

Keeping the mind clean.i don't know how will i
-achieve- this
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

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Re: yunmen’s dried shit stick

Post by Pablo » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:49 am

guo gu wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:53 am
what a shitstick!
:113:
Dear Guo Gu,

Thanks for pointing out our blindspots, you're very kind. It's good to see that you're not attached to your own words, as well.

I wonder, though, how effective this method is, in an Internet forum. Seems to me we can easily escape recognizing our shortcomings, and it could feed our tendencies to do "performance Zen", don't you think?
Jeff Shore's website: https://beingwithoutself.org

Zazen in Madrid: https://pandazen.es

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Re: yunmen’s dried shit stick

Post by Pablo » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:56 am

Dan74 wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:14 am
But it seems to me that the true beginner's mind isn't only free and open in regards to Zen and koans, but to every moment as it arises, every situation, every person, every action, no matter how trivial or life-changing. This openness and freedom are not what most of us naturally have - we get 'stuck' on things. Hence the need for practice.
Thanks for your honest words, Dan, as usual.

Who makes the distinction between "Zen and koans" on one hand and "every moment as it arises" on the other hand? Who makes the distinction between "normal life" and practice? Thanks for the koan :)
Jeff Shore's website: https://beingwithoutself.org

Zazen in Madrid: https://pandazen.es

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