Best Shikantaza Ever

Discussion of Zen Buddhism.
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desert_woodworker
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Re: Best Shikantaza Ever

Post by desert_woodworker » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:51 pm

Best is when methods disappear, and cannot be grasped. --Joe

Spike
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Re: Best Shikantaza Ever

Post by Spike » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:04 pm

loves' the unjust wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:24 pm
The best thing i love about myself is when i speak i speak as if i know :D
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[james]
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Re: Best Shikantaza Ever

Post by [james] » Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:48 pm

Spike? ... ???

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fuki
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Re: Best Shikantaza Ever

Post by fuki » Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:17 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:51 pm
Best is when methods disappear, and cannot be grasped. --Joe
:hatsoff:
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bukowski
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Re: Best Shikantaza Ever

Post by bukowski » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:19 pm

I love the idea that shikantaza is an expression of faith, specifically in the Buddhas enlightenment and in our own Buddha nature.

I had never considered this before, but I think it is very much my own experience, every time I sit.

I tried to explain why I sit to my young son a while ago? It was really tough to put it across simply to him. It made me think about why I actually do sit!

I think faith is the perfect explanation. Faith In the Buddhas teachings. Faith in enlightenment. Faith that I will experience the very rare moments when I have experienced my own Buddha nature, albeit fleetingly.

As George Michael said, you gotta have faith!

avisitor
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Re: Best Shikantaza Ever

Post by avisitor » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:50 am

bukowski wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:19 pm
I tried to explain why I sit to my young son a while ago? It was really tough to put it across simply to him. It made me think about why I actually do sit!
My daughter asked me what I was doing ... I explained the steps.
But, did not say why I sit
That would have to go into the Four Noble Truths
But, why believe? Faith?
At one time, I did believe
After forty years, .. I don't know what I believe.
Just do what I do and hope for the best

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fuki
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Re: Best Shikantaza Ever

Post by fuki » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:39 pm

I don't have kids, but plenty a friend's kids took an interest from observing me, when they asked me what are you doing, I would simply say "relaxing in the space between two thoughts, but it's not something you do, just your natural state" or I would say "aware of being aware" and they would just smile with bright eyes or nod, sometimes there's a "huh" and I would later in an outdoor situation when walking the dog or sitting on the playground use a sky/cloud or ocean/wave/river metaphors, and say "like that/this" Surprisingly (not really) kids understand it much better than adults, who make "the space between thoughts" another thought/concept, and instead of truly meditating would just be cloud shifting in their practise.
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Caodemarte
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Re: Best Shikantaza Ever

Post by Caodemarte » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:24 pm

fuki wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:39 pm
I don't have kids, but plenty a friend's kids took an interest from observing me, when they asked me what are you doing, I would simply say "relaxing in the space between two thoughts, but it's not something you do, just your natural state" or I would say "aware of being aware" and they would just smile with bright eyes or nod, sometimes there's a "huh" and I would later in an outdoor situation when walking the dog or sitting on the playground use a sky/cloud or ocean/wave/river metaphors, and say "like that/this" Surprisingly (not really) kids understand it much better than adults, who make "the space between thoughts" another thought/concept, and instead of truly meditating would just be cloud shifting in their practise.
Sounds like some Dzogchen approaches.

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fuki
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Re: Best Shikantaza Ever

Post by fuki » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:09 am

Caodemarte wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:24 pm

Sounds like some Dzogchen approaches.
Yes, the words are closer to the Dzogchen expressions indeed, for me it's simple there's true meditation (or non-meditation) and there's conventional meditation, or prerequisite meditation. When talking about zazen/shikantaza in the past I always noticed it's harder for ppl to grasp the instructions while some expressions from Dzogchen facilitators worked better, it also suits me better for communicating, the words I mean, I don't differentiate between the 'practises' since it's not a method or prerequisite practise. Sometimes you see Zen teachers 'explain' shikantaza like that too but mostly they stick to the conventional zen speech (which is logical considering the audience)
[SPOILER]
As the great Tibetan yogi Milarepa noted: “In the gap between former and later thoughts non-conceptual wisdom shines continuously.” A thousand years later, the contemporary master Anam Thubten echoes: “Notice that there is a gap between each thought. Notice that there is a space between the place where the last thought came to an end and the next one hasn’t arrived yet. In this space there is no “I” or “me.” That’s it.”

“It is easy to recognize it. You just have to drop thinking and it is right there. There is not a lot to be done. You do not have to do this and that and the other. It is like the example of trying to touch space with your finger. To touch space, you do not have to move your finger at all, do you—it is already touching space, isn’t it?”
~Mingyur Rinpoche
Not moving your finger is something kids also get immediately, a big smile appears when they get it or at least the ones who approach me, it could be that all the kids who wouldn't get it just don't ask, I also learned at a young age that if you ask for nothing, everything will come to you spontaneously, I never tried to explain anything to a kid who didn't ask me first. it's most beautiful to explain something so simply while an adult might start to conceptualize it and totally misses it, a kid can get it (or an adult ofcourse) on the spot without any mental process being involved :)
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