Polishing tiles

Discussion of Zen Buddhism, Soto Zen, Rinzai Zen, Chan, Seon and Thien.
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desert_woodworker
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Re: Polishing tiles

Post by desert_woodworker » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:25 am

Polishing of tiles would be a great thing. Anybody who thinks that is easy may be, ...well, ...mistaken.

Polish; polish; polish. When you're done, polish some more.

Is this good, or great? Dunno (exactly, just as you don't know, yourself). Try polishing.

--Joe
Ignorance is to be ignorant of one's original mind. - Ma Tsu

Liberation is awakening to one's original nature. - Ma Tsu

The World is all that is the case. -Ludwig Wittgenstein

Why weigh anything heavy?

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Enver M.
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Re: Polishing tiles

Post by Enver M. » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:58 am

Oh, I know that.Like in the movie Karate Kid Daniel's trainning, right?

"Wax on, wax off"

Wax On, Wax Off - The Karate Kid Movie CLIP
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=SMCsXl9SGgY
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

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Anders
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Re: Polishing tiles

Post by Anders » Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:36 am

Enver M. wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:51 pm
I'm very close to this.i mean this vivid living practice. somewhat slightly a few 'days' away.
i can feel this.

when i succed i will call my self a Zen Master.
A Zen Master
Hi Enver,

I pray that you will succeed so vastly that you will get it all in one go, as Huineng did (although even he needed a few months of maturation between his initial awakening and his final awakening).

You may find that when you succeed, if not immediately then a while afterwards, that your habitual samsaric tendencies still have lots of fuel in them and that more work is required - Hakuin presented in a way to say that awakening is simply the beginning of the path proper - the real hard work (without which one can not properly be considered a Zen master) begins after awakening and often takes decades to mature, embody and fully actualise.

Nonetheless, I am rooting for you to do it!

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Enver M.
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Re: Polishing tiles

Post by Enver M. » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:01 pm

Thank you Anders,

You sound very sincere like a true dharma friend there.
I get very tired.Tired of living and investigation mostly based on pondering.It took 15 years of my lifetime.Now I feel, "My strength failing and my vitality exhausted" as said in ten bulls.It took me 15 years to understand just this two words "vitality exhausted".I don't know how many years will take the rest.

Anyhow thanks for your best wishes.

It just remain one step forward for me to begin (real) practice.I don't have any excuse but daily affairs keep me busy in one way or another in these final moments.

Real practice should be 24/7 for me.I will try my best, promise.But I still don't know what binds me really.What keeps me away from practicing?

This one step is very important.Cause I believe the rest will come by itself.

And I'm a follower of the sudden school too.Just not sure if that sudden enlightenment is possible for a one who is on the beginning? I always think it is only possible for those who comes to level 9in a way and one step behind the enlightenment.

best
Last edited by Enver M. on Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

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Meido
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Re: Polishing tiles

Post by Meido » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:11 pm

Anders wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:36 am
You may find that when you succeed, if not immediately then a while afterwards, that your habitual samsaric tendencies still have lots of fuel in them and that more work is required - Hakuin presented in a way to say that awakening is simply the beginning of the path proper - the real hard work (without which one can not properly be considered a Zen master) begins after awakening and often takes decades to mature, embody and fully actualise.
Yes. And since Huineng's more profound awakening after going to the 5th patriarch's place was mentioned earlier: that was followed, it is reported, by 16 years of cultivation in secret before he began to teach.

So in that sense I would not call it his final awakening: it was more like the end of the beginning :)
The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice
Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org
Madison, WI Rinzai Zen Community [機山龍源寺] - http://www.madisonrinzaizen.org
The Rinzai Zen Community - http://www.rinzaizen.org

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Enver M.
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Re: Polishing tiles

Post by Enver M. » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:19 pm

Meido wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:11 pm
Yes. And since Huineng's more profound awakening after going to the 5th patriarch's place was mentioned earlier: that was followed, it is reported, by 16 years of cultivation in secret before he began to teach.
Yes, I had heard that too.I was reading more in the former days._/\_
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

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Enver M.
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Re: Polishing tiles

Post by Enver M. » Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:14 pm

There is only just one way.You walk through and hold on or not.
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

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Enver M.
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Re: Polishing tiles

Post by Enver M. » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:39 pm

Enver M. wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:01 pm

I will try my best, promise.But I still don't know what binds me really.What keeps me away from practicing?

This one step is very important.Cause I believe the rest will come by itself.
I wonder if I'm waiting for a holy message.

I will ponder on this tomorrow.Now, I will go to bed.
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

Pablo
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Re: Polishing tiles

Post by Pablo » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:14 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:55 am
Hi, Pablo, no; I do not say that "we need to let go of methods". And, I never said that.
Sorry for misconstruing your words, then :sad:

Yes, methods disappear in deep samadhi. That's nice. Then samadhi goes and we have to go back to our method. Still, it's important not to get attached to it, samadhi or no samadhi.

I don't know about what the Tathagatha has achieved, though. Or about awakening. A couple of weeks without reading any Zen and these concepts go out of my mind. But yes, practice, practice, practice. And then more practice.
Jeff Shore's website: https://beingwithoutself.org

Zazen in Madrid: https://pandazen.es

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Polishing tiles

Post by desert_woodworker » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:35 pm

Pablo, thanks.

--Joe

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