the true human body - how does it move its arms?

Discussion of Zen Buddhism, Soto Zen, Rinzai Zen, Chan, Seon and Thien.
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Mason
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Re: the true human body - how does it move its arms?

Post by Mason » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:43 am

Enver you are just so goddamn WHITE. haha

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Enver M.
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Re: the true human body - how does it move its arms?

Post by Enver M. » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:06 pm

namaste: _/\_
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

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Enver M.
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Re: the true human body - how does it move its arms?

Post by Enver M. » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:29 pm

:113:
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

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Dan74
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Re: the true human body - how does it move its arms?

Post by Dan74 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:38 pm

Half of the time I have no idea what the folks are saying, so forgive the intrusion, but let's make sure we play nice, avoid projecting and inadvertently causing harm.

_/|\_

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Mason
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Re: the true human body - how does it move its arms?

Post by Mason » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:47 am

Dan74 wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:38 pm
Half of the time I have no idea what the folks are saying, so forgive the intrusion, but let's make sure we play nice, avoid projecting and inadvertently causing harm.

_/|\_
Thanks Dan, though I would argue that our transgression was one of playfulness and not aggressiveness!

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Dan74
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Re: the true human body - how does it move its arms?

Post by Dan74 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:42 pm

Mason wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:47 am
Dan74 wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:38 pm
Half of the time I have no idea what the folks are saying, so forgive the intrusion, but let's make sure we play nice, avoid projecting and inadvertently causing harm.

_/|\_
Thanks Dan, though I would argue that our transgression was one of playfulness and not aggressiveness!
:bow2: :bow2: :bow2:

I just need a reminder sometimes that life is short, annoyance and rancour are friends to embrace and look after, not externalise and let's not waste it proceeding in habitual patterns of unawareness. Maybe others benefit from such a reminder as well, or maybe it's not necessary at all, in which case, I am sorry I butt in foolishly.

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Mason
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Re: the true human body - how does it move its arms?

Post by Mason » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:06 pm

Ha, well, speaking for myself, I'm sure I'll need such reminders till I'm dancing in the bardo. :109:

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Enver M.
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Re: the true human body - how does it move its arms?

Post by Enver M. » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:16 pm

You remind me a memory of mine, Mason.Once, one of those days which I had gone to a bar with a friend in the younger days.Later, the time passed and with the effect of the alcohol my friend began dancing by himself as the music was good too.however by the staff whom saw him so were than later had thrown us from the bar.I never understood them.Why a person do go to a bar?And if he can't enjoy himself there, where could he go? Whereas we had newly began to have fun..
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

Kaya
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Re: the true human body - how does it move its arms?

Post by Kaya » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:49 am

Enver M. wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:16 pm
You remind me a memory of mine, Mason.Once, one of those days which I had gone to a bar with a friend in the younger days.Later, the time passed and with the effect of the alcohol my friend began dancing by himself as the music was good too.however by the staff whom saw him so were than later had thrown us from the bar.I never understood them.Why a person do go to a bar?And if he can't enjoy himself there, where could he go? Whereas we had newly began to have fun..
"with the effect of the alcohol" is key. Most bars have rules against drunken dopey behavior, on behalf of other patrons and their own business reputation, liability, etc.

Why not go to a bar with a dance floor?

Better still, perhaps you are now mature enough to respect Buddhist guidelines against use of intoxicants. Can't life be worth living without it?

(P.S. I endorse Pauli girl N.A. and other German non-alcoholic beers. Great taste, doesn't kill brain cells, liver, or innocents on the road.)

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Dan74
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Re: the true human body - how does it move its arms?

Post by Dan74 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:21 am

I think you miss the point of what Enver is trying to communicate, Kaya. It is sometimes tricky with his English, but the talk about rules, behaving dopily etc misses the proverbial arrow by a mile for me.

Is life about rules and propriety?
Last edited by Dan74 on Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Enver M.
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Re: the true human body - how does it move its arms?

Post by Enver M. » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:43 am

Mason wrote: Why not go to a bar with a dance floor?
Thank you.I'll consider that.
Yet, spirituality is to be spiritual.My main concern for now is how I can practice zen by living.
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

Kaya
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Re: the true human body - how does it move its arms?

Post by Kaya » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:53 am

Dan74 wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:21 am

Is life about rules and propriety?
Do you work? Are you happily married? Do you operate a motor vehicle? Ever attend a sesshin? Is there a problem with propriety or rules, as appropriate, in life? Don't these things actually help?

Can me and my biker buddies come over for a party? Just kidding

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Dan74
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Re: the true human body - how does it move its arms?

Post by Dan74 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:55 pm

Kaya wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:53 am
Dan74 wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:21 am

Is life about rules and propriety?
Do you work? Are you happily married? Do you operate a motor vehicle? Ever attend a sesshin? Is there a problem with propriety or rules, as appropriate, in life? Don't these things actually help?

Can me and my biker buddies come over for a party? Just kidding
You answer a question with a question, Kaya. But FWIW my answers are

"Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. "as appropriate" implies it's not a problem, so no question. Yes, they do, but it's not what it's about.

Definitely! But I suspect you I am not really a riding distance away."

My point is that if you tell a tale about a night of riding with your biker buddies and I start quoting motorcycle fatalities statistic to you in response, then I've missed the point of your story. Do you see my point?


(on a related note I just realised that 'missing the point' and 'the arrows missing each other' are both about the point, of the arrow that is, not to be missed!)

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Re: the true human body - how does it move its arms?

Post by Kaya » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:31 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:21 am
I think you miss the point of what Enver is trying to communicate . . .
Glad you're confident that you understand Enver's mind and can interpret the meaning of his memory story for the rest of us (without falling victim to the fallacy of authorial intent, I hope).

Please proceed.

In the meantime I'll stick with what has meaning to me.

P.S. Thanks for the reminder about the risks of mc riding. Operating any mv, would advise avoiding the bars (haven't been in one in 30+ years) so one doesn't prematurely end up dancing in the bardo.

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Dan74
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Re: the true human body - how does it move its arms?

Post by Dan74 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:37 pm

Kaya wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:31 pm
Dan74 wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:21 am
I think you miss the point of what Enver is trying to communicate . . .
Glad you're confident that you understand Enver's mind and can interpret the meaning of his memory story for the rest of us (without falling victim to the fallacy of authorial intent, I hope).

Please proceed.

In the meantime I'll stick with what has meaning to me.

P.S. Thanks for the reminder about the risks of mc riding. Operating any mv, would advise avoiding the bars (haven't been in one in 30+ years) so one doesn't prematurely end up dancing in the bardo.
:103:

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Enver M.
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Re: the true human body - how does it move its arms?

Post by Enver M. » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:44 pm

Kaya wrote: Can me and my biker buddies come over for a party? Just kidding
If you have a girl friend I may come. :D

Dan74 wrote: (on a related note I just realised that 'missing the point' and 'the arrows missing each other' are both about the point, of the arrow that is, not to be missed!)
_/\_
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

Kaya
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Re: the true human body - how does it move its arms?

Post by Kaya » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:58 pm

Enver M. wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:44 pm

If you have a girl friend I may come. :D
No gf? :111:

That probably explains a lot . . .

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Enver M.
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Re: the true human body - how does it move its arms?

Post by Enver M. » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:18 pm

All the best.
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

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desert_woodworker
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Re: the true human body - how does it move its arms?

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:13 am

Cat moves its "arms" like so. True Human or Feline cat. ;-)

A Turkish Van cat, from the Lake Van area of NE Turkey.

My Van cat Helva looks just like this.

--Joe

van_lake.jpg
Turkish Van Cat at Lake Van, in Turkey

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van_lake.jpg (169.66 KiB) Viewed 66 times

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Mason
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Re: the true human body - how does it move its arms?

Post by Mason » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:32 am

Here is my wonderful feline truth:

Image

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