Alan Watts on meditation

Discussion of Zen Buddhism.
Spike
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Re: Alan Watts on meditation

Post by Spike » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:00 pm

Seeker242 wrote:I prefer people who actually behave appropriately.
Alcoholism is not a behavior.

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fuki
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Re: Alan Watts on meditation

Post by fuki » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:06 pm

Spike wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:00 pm
Seeker242 wrote:I prefer people who actually behave appropriately.
Alcoholism is not a behavior.
:namaste:
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Larry
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Re: Alan Watts on meditation

Post by Larry » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:10 pm

fuki wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:42 pm
I drank 3 glasses of whiskey a few days ago (with a cigar ofcourse)
Was it just a cigar? :D

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Great Sage EofH
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Re: Alan Watts on meditation

Post by Great Sage EofH » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:51 pm

Nothing wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:57 am
Great Sage EofH wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:47 am

Okay, call me a cynic?
[SPOILER]


Catch a shooting star and put it in your pocket
And your pants will start on fire
One bird in the hand or two birds in the bush
Neither do you any good, when you're stuck in the quagmire

Show everyone you're not sure that they're telling the truth
Then you can be known as the universal cynic too

Benefit your fellow man with good deeds for the day
And you'll serve your life away
Pennies saved today are pennies still tomorrow
Strewn upon the desk, piled up in the paper weight

Show everyone you're not sure that they're telling the truth
Then you can be known as a universal cynic too

Wipe your opaque eyes and restore your crystal vision
Turn another cheek and exalt in your decision
A bit of exercise for the universal cynic in you

Early to bed and early to rise
Precludes you from seeing the most brilliant starry nights
Sticks and stones can break bones, words can't really hurt
Unless you carry guns and are hungry for a fight

Challenging the standards or questioning the established rules
Trying to understand how they can benefit you

Showing everyone you're not sure that they're telling the truth
Just a bit of exercise for the universal cynic in you
The universal cynic is you
p.s. just a joke, not serious :)
Great song, sounds a lot like my typical mentality
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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fuki
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Re: Alan Watts on meditation

Post by fuki » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:37 pm

Larry wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:10 pm
fuki wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:42 pm
I drank 3 glasses of whiskey a few days ago (with a cigar ofcourse)
Was it just a cigar? :D
:lol:

Yes, this psychosomatic form doesn't "handle" "pret sigaretten" so good anymore (fun cigarettes/dutchies) so it seems to serve no more function, not even for entertainments sake ones or twice a year, but fun/love to those who still find service in grasshopping! :D

It's funny though, same applies to "religion" or "spirituality" ;)
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
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Seeker242
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Re: Alan Watts on meditation

Post by Seeker242 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:56 pm

Spike wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:00 pm
Seeker242 wrote:I prefer people who actually behave appropriately.
Alcoholism is not a behavior.
Drinking alcohol is a behavior. Abstaining from that behavior is one of the basic five precepts. I generally don’t take spiritual advice from people that can’t even follow them. And it’s not the only one he broke either. That’s my choice, no one else’s.

If wise people don’t judge, like some people are alleging, then my choice shouldn’t be judged either. It’s my choice...I don’t take spiritual advice from Noah Levine or Mipham Rinpoche either. There is nothing at all wrong about that kind of choice.

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fuki
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Re: Alan Watts on meditation

Post by fuki » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:28 pm

Seeker242 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:56 pm
There is nothing at all wrong about that kind of choice.
Ofcourse not, we're just sharing different angles of vision, no opposition to be found (at least I didn't fabricate it)
You're talking about the choice of excluding and including and I was in general just referring that teachings/wisdom or even (enlightened) activity isn't perse/always connected to a "person" or individual, so I'm always open to everything, damn a blackbird in the morning covers more then any human teacher or holy book could, but that's silly "me" again. Though I've never seen a drunk blackbird I give you that. :D
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

Spike
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Re: Alan Watts on meditation

Post by Spike » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:23 pm

fuki wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:28 pm
Though I've never seen a drunk blackbird I give you that. :D
Inspiration for a YouTube selfie. :lol:

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Mason
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Re: Alan Watts on meditation

Post by Mason » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:50 pm

From the viewpoint that there are sentient beings, may all sentient beings be at ease.

From the viewpoint that there are just causes and conditions, may there be freedom from suffering and stress.

In my understanding, actions are to be judged as good or bad (skillful or unskillful) so that we can efficiently navigate towards the goal of liberation.

Having ill-will towards sentient beings for their mistakes is unskillful in my view. Having wisdom about their actions so as to not repeat one's own mistakes is skillful.

May all beings be at ease.
"The Way needs no cultivation, just do not defile. What is defilement? When with a mind of birth and death one acts in a contrived way, then everything is a defilement. If one wants to know the Way directly: Ordinary Mind is the Way!"

- Record of Ma-tsu

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clyde
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Re: Alan Watts on meditation

Post by clyde » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:59 am

Mason wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:50 pm
From the viewpoint that there are sentient beings, may all sentient beings be at ease.

From the viewpoint that there are just causes and conditions, may there be freedom from suffering and stress.

In my understanding, actions are to be judged as good or bad (skillful or unskillful) so that we can efficiently navigate towards the goal of liberation.

Having ill-will towards sentient beings for their mistakes is unskillful in my view. Having wisdom about their actions so as to not repeat one's own mistakes is skillful.

May all beings be at ease.
:bow2:
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”

avisitor
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Re: Alan Watts on meditation

Post by avisitor » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:45 am

fuki wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:28 pm
Though I've never seen a drunk blackbird I give you that. :D
I seem to remember a National Geographic video about a tree in Africa whose fruit ferments while still on the tree
The animals that eat the fruit become quite drunk
It was quite funny seeing all the animals falling down drunk
There was no fighting
Guess that is what we need to do with people
Get them all falling down drunk so they can not start a war

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Larry
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Re: Alan Watts on meditation

Post by Larry » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:11 am

avisitor wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:45 am
Guess that is what we need to do with people
Get them all falling down drunk so they can not start a war
Or maybe they could be intoxicated by the interwebs. Like us :D

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Nothing
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Re: Alan Watts on meditation

Post by Nothing » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:41 pm

Great Sage EofH wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:51 pm
Nothing wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:57 am
Great Sage EofH wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:47 am

Okay, call me a cynic?
[SPOILER]


Catch a shooting star and put it in your pocket
And your pants will start on fire
One bird in the hand or two birds in the bush
Neither do you any good, when you're stuck in the quagmire

Show everyone you're not sure that they're telling the truth
Then you can be known as the universal cynic too

Benefit your fellow man with good deeds for the day
And you'll serve your life away
Pennies saved today are pennies still tomorrow
Strewn upon the desk, piled up in the paper weight

Show everyone you're not sure that they're telling the truth
Then you can be known as a universal cynic too

Wipe your opaque eyes and restore your crystal vision
Turn another cheek and exalt in your decision
A bit of exercise for the universal cynic in you

Early to bed and early to rise
Precludes you from seeing the most brilliant starry nights
Sticks and stones can break bones, words can't really hurt
Unless you carry guns and are hungry for a fight

Challenging the standards or questioning the established rules
Trying to understand how they can benefit you

Showing everyone you're not sure that they're telling the truth
Just a bit of exercise for the universal cynic in you
The universal cynic is you
p.s. just a joke, not serious :)
Great song, sounds a lot like my typical mentality
I can relate too :)
Larry wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:37 am
Nothing wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:21 pm
Larry wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:27 am
Nothing wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:57 am
Catch a shooting star and put it in your pocket
And your pants will start on fire
Some esoteric practices can be quite risky :D
:D
Reserved only for the Rinpoches :P
:D

I've reported you to Kim :P
:hide:

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Crystal
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Re: Alan Watts on meditation

Post by Crystal » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:56 am

Seeker242 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:56 pm

Drinking alcohol is a behavior. Abstaining from that behavior is one of the basic five precepts. I generally don’t take spiritual advice from people that can’t even follow them. And it’s not the only one he broke either. That’s my choice, no one else’s.

If wise people don’t judge, like some people are alleging, then my choice shouldn’t be judged either. It’s my choice...I don’t take spiritual advice from Noah Levine or Mipham Rinpoche either. There is nothing at all wrong about that kind of choice.
:560: :115:


.

Spike
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Re: Alan Watts on meditation

Post by Spike » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:39 pm

Consider choosing to judge the advice given first. It will help in judging the giver, if you must.

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Larry
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Re: Alan Watts on meditation

Post by Larry » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:27 am

:namaste:

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Great Sage EofH
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Re: Alan Watts on meditation

Post by Great Sage EofH » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:36 pm

It's a Middle Way thing, avoiding the excesses of too much or too little. In the middle is stillness, centeredness. We all know how boring that sounds and why they do what they do. It takes a Buddha to find a mundane thing and know it's really a jewel. I'm thankful for what's been given to me. You know, whether this is the Kali Yuga or not?
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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fuki
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Re: Alan Watts on meditation

Post by fuki » Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:32 pm

Spike wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:39 pm
Consider choosing to judge the advice given first. It will help in judging the giver, if you must.
People who seek to be right can never truly understand anything.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

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Mason
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Re: Alan Watts on meditation

Post by Mason » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:57 pm

fuki wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:32 pm
Spike wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:39 pm
Consider choosing to judge the advice given first. It will help in judging the giver, if you must.
People who seek to be right can never truly understand anything.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Is your statement here right or wrong?
"The Way needs no cultivation, just do not defile. What is defilement? When with a mind of birth and death one acts in a contrived way, then everything is a defilement. If one wants to know the Way directly: Ordinary Mind is the Way!"

- Record of Ma-tsu

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fuki
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Re: Alan Watts on meditation

Post by fuki » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:01 pm

Mason wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:57 pm
Is your statement here right or wrong?
It doesn't apply, in the same way that it doesn't apply (or matter) if the statement "alcoholism isn't a behavior" is so called right or wrong, because the moment that sentence appeared, the correct function of the words of the speaker should be clear immediately. Seeking to be right in relation to people is merely self-contraction, a defense mechanism of the human persona, right and wrong is only functional in relation to things. If you say these words are right, it merely means you understand or agree if you have a different view you might say I'm wrong, but you already know right and wrong is relative and is totally useless in understanding sentient beings. When I say you're right it means I understand you from your point of view, but I wouldnt use that word, when someone tells me "alcoholism isn't a behavior" I understand what he means and simply bow, for such a person is able to make a difference instead of people questioning the right and wrongness of words and ideas. If you understand what I'm saying right and wrong no longer matters, if you don't understand what I'm saying, it also doesn't matter. :waving:
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