Aww-w, shucks!, Mr. Marcel (looking down at my feet, and blushing).
--Joe (aww, shucks..... )
Fuki, I take it that that is a quote from a piece by one Sri Nisargadatta.
Joe, thanks again.
Glad to hear that.desert_woodworker wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 12:34 amAgha Enver,
My teacher used to say that, if we have had some opening or awakening experience, and then if we read the sutras, we should NOT read them using our experience to interpret and understand them; but we should read them to try to better understand our experience. This was Sheng Yen. I thought that this was a very humble and honest approach, and one that could keep us and our associates from trouble. The sutras are a touchstone. Of course, we still need a Human teacher.
What's funny about this, it's also possible within the framework of Advaita Vedanta to take a purely classical Buddhist view, because Advaita is a means of inquiry, not a creedal position as Westerners prefer to believe, and there are many perspectives within Advaita itself including atheists, humanists, and those to whom Atman ceases to exist when it merges with Brahman. Although Adi Shankara held his own opinion and made it central. In it's day Advaita was accused of being Buddhism just as Prajñāpāramitā teachings were accused of being Hindu. It's also worth noting that classical Buddhist teaching is entirely within the Vedic tradition. This is one of the weaknesses of the idealization of "Early Buddhism" "original Buddhism" or "Buddhas original teachings" (Pali texts minus their constant reference to Vedic cosmology). I can't casually dismiss neo-Advaita, although it's hard for me to understand what exactly is being said sometimes due to the fact I'm not immersed in that conversation.
Buddhism clearly is not part of the Vedic tradition and does not stem from the Vedic traditions.
Oh that's interesting. So before Buddha awakened, how then did he learn about the goal of Final Liberation? Which is well described in the Vedas? Lucky guess? Magical foresight into the future? I'm all ears.Caodemarte wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 4:08 pmBuddhism clearly is not part of the Vedic tradition and does not stem from the Vedic traditions.
I agree and well said about the stopping point of Hindu and the practitioners from other religions/traditions.desert_woodworker wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 10:15 pmClyde, I've wondered and marveled about the origin of such disparities for decades.
The resolution is in the recognition of two points of view. One is "One Mind", a stopping point of Hindu practitioners ("Atman is Brahman").
The other is "No Mind", a non-stopping point of Zen Buddhist practitioners (given properly attentive teachers, and sufficient practice). "One Mind" is seen-through and gone through, to sudden awakening, as the Buddha's.
I think various other religions -- and cultic awarenesses -- were founded by people stopping at mere "One Mind". It becomes clear which ones.
I agree, not many of the today's Zen teachers , especially on the West, really deserve to be called roshisfuki wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 10:27 pmThis is mostly so, but if you can see outside of a religious framework many awakened beings weren't raised in a Buddhist culture, so they used words from a Hindu or Chrisitian or whatever framework since their "audience" needed words from that culture/religion. But generally I agree with you (when it comes to religion, monotheistic religions are a pest upon mankind, and most of the "Hindu" stuff isn't conducive, but most Buddhist stop at mere "One Mind" too, if they ever truly get there)
but I think it's funny to observe how "Buddhists" habitually react to Sri Niz, based on a few words.
99% of all the Buddhists teachers ever couldn't hold a lamp in his shadow.
Good conversation. I'd like to read more of it. Where is it from?
By being a human being, just as all religious quests start.Great Sage EofH wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 4:31 amOh that's interesting. So before Buddha awakened, how then did he learn about the goal of Final Liberation? Which is well described in the Vedas? Lucky guess? Magical foresight into the future? I'm all ears.Caodemarte wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 4:08 pmBuddhism clearly is not part of the Vedic tradition and does not stem from the Vedic traditions.
Here Cao: Zen in America & the necessity of the Great Doubt https://beingwithoutself.files.wordpres ... merica.pdf.Caodemarte wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 3:45 pmGood conversation. I'd like to read more of it. Where is it from?
Having fled that area as the sea rises for more northern climes, good luck in Boca (just bear in mind that Raton does not come from the Spanish for “little rat,” but by a decision to drop the “e”from Ratone to make it more “elegant” and phonetic for English speakers which has caused unending confusion.)Spike wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 7:16 pmI am in a cheapo extended stay hotel in Boca Raton,...
Ayurveda is considered the 'upaveda' or accessory of Athara Veda . . . the fourth book of the Vedas.
The Four Noble Truths of Buddhism are directly derived from the Four Arya Satyas of Ayurveda:
Dukha - Vyadhi (disease)
Dosha - Vyadhi Nidana (cause of disease)
Nirodha - Arogya (health)
Marga - Bhaisagya (medicaments)
Life is suffering
Suffering is due to attachments
Attachments can be overcome
There is a path for accomplishing this
Pancha Shila (Five Moral Precepts)
Well, of course i just lost the link for this and can't find/retrieve it
I know even less about Vedas/Hinduism than Buddhism/Sutras, etc, so I will defer to the scholars already here.
Thanks! Great stuff and very relevant!Nothing wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 5:48 pmHere Cao: Zen in America & the necessity of the Great Doubt https://beingwithoutself.files.wordpres ... merica.pdf.Caodemarte wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 3:45 pmGood conversation. I'd like to read more of it. Where is it from?
Will be living "up north" in Delray Beach (AMSL 13) near family in Miami. Such a cool little town! I believe I will be long gone, one way or (probably) the other, well before the inevitable change occurs.Caodemarte wrote: Having fled that area as the sea rises for more northern climes, good luck in Boca . . .
As I moreless implied, i could give a raton's ass.Caodemarte wrote: Just as the sound of Boca Raton resembles the mouth of a small rat but does not derive from a , there is no sign that the 4NT derives from Aryuvedic medicine in substance, as distinct from form, or that cause and effect derives from Ayurvedic medicine. Of course, any logical statement or prescription will probably resemble other prescriptions or statements in form, but not in substance.
Keeping on topic, a husband wouldn't be a husband without a wife, in the same way Buddhism wouldn't be Buddhism without numberless causes and conditions since everything is interlinked, but causes are transient and understanding dependent origination is understanding the transient dharma, which is Buddhism. So understanding dependent origination has no function in itself or for oneself, only in relation to others and thus "expounding the dharma" if we talk about DO all day on a zen forum between Buddhists, I frankly have no idea what we're doing or what in someone's name we think we understand and trying to grasp here. DO is only applicable to a relative view, to the "highest" view aka Reality, everything is uncaused.