KENSHO. Your experience, your thoughts..?

Discussion of Zen Buddhism.
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Larry
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Re: KENSHO. Your experience, your thoughts..?

Post by Larry » Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:48 pm

Hey! You stole my answer :D

1000 for the same reason there are 84000 gates. Buddhist maths :D

Caodemarte
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Re: KENSHO. Your experience, your thoughts..?

Post by Caodemarte » Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:03 am

Great Sage EofH wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:36 pm
.... I have heard "discussion groups" working on koans - in a purely intellectual manner within the Rinzai community. Which does not resonate with me. This example (your story) I think better reflects the original style of practice, which is living with the teacher, who gets to actually know you, and the koan being a deeper invocation of one's dedication, that gets to awakening. Still, where I'm coming from, it's pretty much a luxury beyond my means.
The best koan is probably one you have come up with from your heart. The already written ones are there because it is is very difficult to articulate that fundamental question at your very base. In any case, any koan that does not become your own is useless IMHO.

If you are referring to koan discussion groups as a form of koan practice rather, then say, a historical or academic discussion then you are probably thinking of non-Rinzai groups. There is a breakaway offshoot of Aitken's Diamond Sangha (also non-Rinzai) which apparently does this, and was disavowed by Aitken. There are also some Soto and Rinzai influenced groups which apparently have tried this. Rinzai practitioners I know do not usually discuss koan practice; not because there is some taboo, but because it seems pointless to them. Dharma group discussions and practice discussions that come from the practice are a different matter, but must be carefully managed to make sure they don’t degenerate into mere talk about practice, rather than actual practice. Again, this refers only to koan discussion as a Zen religious practice, not academic or historical discussions.

Only monks historically lived with their teacher. Lay practitioners (see Layman Pang and the Zen Chinese literati) historically did not live with their teachers or see the often far away teachers on a daily basis. They attended retreats when possible, but mostly practiced at home. The person who brought koans to the forefront of practice, Dahui Puje (not Rinzai) often (and primarily when in exile) taught lay students by letter to distant locations with occasional meetings. Sounds like modern lay practice! There are advantages and disadvantages to either outward style. In any case, we practice where we are as we can. How else could we do it?

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desert_woodworker
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Re: KENSHO. Your experience, your thoughts..?

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:57 pm

I'll say again, "the body changes". No one has responded to this.

Yes, feeling of a "mind" has been a delusion/illusion. This is utterly clear on awakening.

In the awakened state, there is no mind, such as in the deluded state, where "mind", and that mind's movements, are illusory. And body, as it is, is very different. Weightless, and ready to respond in circumstances, when true Wisdom (prajna) and True Compassion (karuna) arise spontaneously, in seamless response to events or situations and circumstances and to beings, JUST as they arise (no time-delay).

This is the wonderful mind of no-mind. Our original nature.

Strong practice,

--Joe

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Larry
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Re: KENSHO. Your experience, your thoughts..?

Post by Larry » Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:18 am

desert_woodworker wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:57 pm
No one has responded to this.
Who better :D

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Spike
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Re: KENSHO. Your experience, your thoughts..?

Post by Spike » Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:21 pm

Larry wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:18 am
desert_woodworker wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:57 pm
No one has responded to this.
Who better :D
:lol: 8-)

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desert_woodworker
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Re: KENSHO. Your experience, your thoughts..?

Post by desert_woodworker » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:30 am

Larry wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:18 am
desert_woodworker wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:57 pm
No one has responded to this.
Who better :D
Thanks, Larry.

And don't let me be the only one.

Strong practice, ALL.

--Joe

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