Good Karma, Bad Karma ... Really?

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[james]
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Good Karma, Bad Karma ... Really?

Post by [james] » Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:20 pm

Recent posts have referred to good, bad, evil, twisted karma.
Doesn’t characterizing karma in this way contribute to the creation of new karma?
How does a student of Zen endeavor to understand and work with karma?

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Good Karma, Bad Karma ... Really?

Post by loves' the unjust » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:02 pm

I've said these before:

We live
for the benefit of all beings.
All the questions
should be considered in this manner.

This will create good karma.


on the other hand
To fight against devil is enough for one for the practice!

this is just my experience.


There is an exception here.
If You have been done wrong.
In this case, you have a right rise to take revenge.
This is exception.
Nothing to do with the question.
Simply be my own problem.
hello mom

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[james]
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Re: Good Karma, Bad Karma ... Really?

Post by [james] » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:33 pm

loves' the unjust wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:02 pm
This will create good karma.
Is there anything to be said, in your opinion, for not creating karma at all? How might that unfold as one’s life? This is after all the fundamental basis of Buddhist practice.
on the other hand
To fight against devil is enough for one for the practice!

this is just my experience.
Could be, if you actually mean “ignorance”.

There is an exception here.
If You have been done wrong.
In this case, you have a right rise to take revenge.
This is exception.
Nothing to do with the question.
Simply be my own problem.
More karma.

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Re: Good Karma, Bad Karma ... Really?

Post by clyde » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:42 pm

loves' the unjust wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:02 pm
There is an exception here.
If You have been done wrong.
In this case, you have a right rise to take revenge.
This is exception.
Nothing to do with the question.
Simply be my own problem.
The Buddha did not teach that there is “a right rise to take revenge”. No exceptions.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”

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fuki
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Re: Good Karma, Bad Karma ... Really?

Post by fuki » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:49 pm

right, "revenge" sounds like emotional reactivity, so hard to see how that can be non-karmic.
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Re: Good Karma, Bad Karma ... Really?

Post by fuki » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:57 pm

[james] wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:20 pm
How does a student of Zen endeavor to understand and work with karma?
haven't read the post you are referring to yet hence only quoting the last sentence,
"karma" for me is a word that represents unspent energies, it can arise in multiple settings/forms, not the event but any reaction to an event, the event (whatever happens) is just a prop in my observation, but the human brain cannot process all that info so it compartilizes 24/7, interestingly "Buddhists" then (often) have an idea about "karma" which is another compartilisation of the brain, apart from this to understand the workings of "karma" just observe this whole process and rest in naked awareness, free of analytics, or any ideas or conclusions about karma. Such is my work 'with' karma to understand it's just a word we use to cover our ignorance.
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Re: Good Karma, Bad Karma ... Really?

Post by loves' the unjust » Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:26 pm

james wrote: Is there anything to be said, in your opinion, for not creating karma at all? How might that unfold as one’s life? This is after all the fundamental basis of Buddhist practice.
Good point here.How you succeed in that?
That would be a good new thread about not creating karma.I would be glad to hear everyone's opinion on this.
Could be, if you actually mean “ignorance”.
I don't think so.My source is safe.
More karma.
May be.
Just become as my karma.
or my exam i dunno.
hello mom

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Re: Good Karma, Bad Karma ... Really?

Post by Spike » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:50 pm

[james] wrote: Is there anything to be said, in your opinion, for not creating karma at all? How might that unfold as one’s life? This is after all the fundamental basis of Buddhist practice.
loves' the unjust wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:26 pm
Good point here.How you succeed in that?
That would be a good new thread about not creating karma.I would be glad to hear everyone's opinion on this.
Why don't you try to answer the question? Give yourself time to think, then provide something we can all try to discuss. Or even a simple Yes/No/IDK for a start. There is no point in responding, imo, if you're just going to keep dodging people here who try to engage you with thought-provoking questions.
loves' the unjust wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:26 pm
To fight against devil is enough for one for the practice!

this is just my experience.
[james] wrote: Could be, if you actually mean “ignorance”.
If I am understanding, [james] is saying fighting against ignorance can be a legitimate part of practice. Why don't you think that that is true, and, other than a person you previously named, who is the devil you are referring to? Mara? If so, does Mara speak to you? Can you see Mara? And what practice do you mean?
loves' the unjust wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:26 pm
I don't think so.My source is safe.
What source?

. . .

So, if you've read through this post, don't think for a minute that I expect a good faith answer!

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Re: Good Karma, Bad Karma ... Really?

Post by fuki » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:32 pm

Spike wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:50 pm
Can you see Mara?
I see Mara, but I could never say it's like this or that, for instance I still have some "sexual emotional contractions" present, or "human throat slitting" which sometimes emerge, it's no biggy personally ( I don't mean any weinstein/helter skelter in action stuff) but I still observe it eventhough I know I am not that chemical proccess which I observe, it's highly interesting and "part" of my practise to understand the "origins" of these "seeds" and so called transform them 'beyond' the whole light/dark spectrum. What I mean I could never say it's like this or that means it depends on the individual's psyche, there's no authority to say this or that is mara, but I doubt on this forum (and offline) people are willingly to speak up about their inner representation of "mara", most are in oblivion about the contractions of their psyche and even when aware are ashamed to speak up, due to cultural/religious shaming of their I-creature, but to me whatever appears is just a chemical process, hence an open book.
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Re: Good Karma, Bad Karma ... Really?

Post by Spike » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:54 pm

fuki wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:32 pm
Spike wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:50 pm
Can you see Mara?
I see Mara . . .
I would be concerned if you saw an image of physical Mara, e.g , like you apprehend your friends at the pub downtown, or your dear mother (respectfully), etc.

Thanks for your thougtful answer. It illustrates what forum participation can be at its best and most useful.

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Re: Good Karma, Bad Karma ... Really?

Post by fuki » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:56 pm

Spike wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:54 pm

I would be concerned if you saw an image of physical Mara, e.g , like you apprehend your friends at the pub downtown, or your dear mother (respectfully), etc.
no worries, never seen any horns or tails (in awake mode), though I did see "jojo rabbit" yesterday ;)
Thanks for your thougtful answer. It illustrates what forum participation can be at its best and most useful.
You're a True Friend.
(you already knew that but for the record, won't mention it again, unless of service in another for(u)m)
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
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Re: Good Karma, Bad Karma ... Really?

Post by Spike » Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:16 am

fuki wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:56 pm
no worries, never seen any horns or tails (in awake mode), though I did see "jojo rabbit" yesterday
"A jew!"
"Gesundheit!'
Well, now I absolutely must see the whole thing!
Thank you for the ref, my friend!

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Re: Good Karma, Bad Karma ... Really?

Post by loves' the unjust » Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:05 am

Spike wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:50 pm
[james] wrote: Is there anything to be said, in your opinion, for not creating karma at all? How might that unfold as one’s life? This is after all the fundamental basis of Buddhist practice.
Why don't you try to answer the question? Give yourself time to think, then provide something we can all try to discuss. Or even a simple Yes/No/IDK for a start. There is no point in responding, imo, if you're just going to keep dodging people here who try to engage you with thought-provoking questions.
Again, good point.This is where i miss the point i guess.if this is the target in one's life.
I see not creating karma as in similar to not creating action in neither positive or negative.or sth like the sum of positive and negatives.this is a momentary answer.but i should ponder on this and i will.life's twists and problems take me away from this fundamental issue.

I will open a new thread on this.
spike wrote:
loves' the unjust wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:26 pm
To fight against devil is enough for one for the practice!

this is just my experience.
[james] wrote: Could be, if you actually mean “ignorance”.
If I am understanding, [james] is saying fighting against ignorance can be a legitimate part of practice. Why don't you think that that is true, and, other than a person you previously named, who is the devil you are referring to? Mara? If so, does Mara speak to you? Can you see Mara? And what practice do you mean?
Simple misunderstanding.Sorry, i get james reply wrong.
The devil i mean which is the mother of all bad things.i think we can burden all negativities to him.ignorances as a part.
So one can build one's life against it.
spike wrote:
loves' the unjust wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:26 pm
I don't think so.My source is safe.
What source?
once i saw a wise man in my dream.he said so.
After all i take this as my experience.

. . .
So, if you've read through this post, don't think for a minute that I expect a good faith answer!
hello mom

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Re: Good Karma, Bad Karma ... Really?

Post by loves' the unjust » Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:24 am

You may think i am a religious people, actually i don't.life's twists.
hello mom

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Re: Good Karma, Bad Karma ... Really?

Post by lindama » Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:16 am

yoo hoo, has anyone noticed how this is tracking the current events regarding assassination and war? WHOA!! talk about karma, haha, sob, sob.

For starters, enlightenment leaves no trace.

As I understand, Karma is simply an action.... actions can cause reactions, thus traces. It's basic humanity, and more. If you hit someone, they may hit you back. If you put your hand in the fire, it will get burned. that's easy. If you live your live in anger, you may see anger all around. In current times, when a righteous warrior is assassinated for selfish reasons, there will be karmic consequences. For goodness sake, don't take the bait on this explanation. Yada, yada. It's a dance of positive and negative electrical charges of energy if you can see the patterns dancing. If you can see, the heart opens.

What I see here is an attempt to understand and reason a way out of suffering as well as to heal our own insufficiency of imperfection. I don't know that a fundamental practice of Buddhism is about not creating karma... good luck on that one. In zen, it's a matter of seeing past our personal identification. There's a universe of meaning behind that which opens to vast compassion. In the process, we may see deeply into ancestral patterns which we are still living, or not. My zen experience was to welcome whatever presented itself. that is a bit different from working with anything.

as far as the person previously named, lol, I can say loves has a good question: how do we fight against ignorance. As I said above, good luck on that one. We can practice, relax our self-identification. IMO, if there is a fight, it is not practice. Little do you know, in the end, Mara can be your best friend and ally.... if you can get past all the silly patriarchy stuff. She's there is teach you strength to your core. Simply stated, that means knowing all the keys on your piano, both white and black, so to speak. Things are not as they appear, she carries a deep love. Who would Buddha be without Mara?

As far as this discussion, it's enough to notice the source of every reaction... wanting to help, explain, or take revenge. This is the world we live in. This is the world we have been influenced by historically and geographically. We can open our eyes, it's 2020.

I am struggling to absorb the karmic consequences of these last few days. The last stop on the road of karma is peace, love, community... pick your word.

linda

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Re: Good Karma, Bad Karma ... Really?

Post by avisitor » Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:14 am

lindama wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:16 am
Who would Buddha be without Mara?
Is that not taking a dualistic view of the world of Buddhism?
Light and dark??
One can not be without the other??

To me Karma is like living in the water
Whatever you do, you make waves
Whatever the wave, good or bad
That is what follows

To end Karma, come out of the water

And Practice, it is the beginning of letting go of thoughts
Cause in the thoughts, we create (ego) ourselves over and over again
The space between the thoughts is where we truly begin to practice

Hmm, think I read that somewhere ... a long time ago ... and it is only seeming to make sense
Like listening to old songs and finally understanding the words
Or listening to the rain, not hearing just the drops but listening to the whole symphony

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Re: Good Karma, Bad Karma ... Really?

Post by lindama » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:31 pm

All good, you make sense. yes, we come out of the karmic waters. that's what Buddha did facing Mara. I'd just spin it a bit differently.

Firstly, it's a shame that our dark side (shadow) has been personified as a female being. Ofc, Buddha and Mara are both personifications of energies we live. Practice is about facing our karmic threads, our attachments and separations, etc.... things that sustain an ego's identity. According to legend, Buddha faced this in the form of Mara and awakened. I'd say Mara was in service to Buddha. Such a sacrifice, she's earned our gratitude. A friend and ally as I said above.

I'd just tweek the water metaphor... the living waters make us more of who we are, nothing is lost, nothing is hidden. Everything is included. It's good for plants, and humans as well. There is nothing to come out of. Thus we go beyond our fears which lead to attachment and separation. That's why we laugh. There is no need for such ideas.Thoughts can be like a velcro noose or like a flowing river.... take you hand out of the river, there is no trace of thought or hand.

linda

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