Case 3 Gutei Raises a Finger 三 倶胝堅指 倶胝和尚、凡有詰問、唯擧一指。 Whenever Gutei Oshõ was asked about Zen, he

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bokki
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Case 3 Gutei Raises a Finger 三 倶胝堅指 倶胝和尚、凡有詰問、唯擧一指。 Whenever Gutei Oshõ was asked about Zen, he

Post by bokki » Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:07 am

Case 3 Gutei Raises a Finger
Whenever Gutei Oshõ was asked about Zen, he simply raised his finger.
Once a visitor asked Gutei's boy attendant, "What does your master teach?"
The boy too raised his finger.

Hearing of this, Gutei cut off the boy's finger with a knife.

The boy, screaming with pain, began to run away.

Gutei called to him, and when he turned around, Gutei raised his finger.

The boy suddenly became enlightened.

When Gutei was about to pass away, he said to his assembled monks, "I obtained one-finger Zen from Tenryû and used it all my life but still did not exhaust it."

When he had finished saying this, he entered into eternal Nirvana.



Mumon's Comment

The enlightenment of Gutei and of the boy does not depend on the finger.
If you understand this, Tenryû, Gutei, the boy, and you yourself are all run through with one skewer.



Mumon's Verse :

Gutei made a fool of old Tenryû,

Emancipating the boy with a single slice,

Just as Kyorei cleaved Mount Kasan

To let the Yellow River run through.





When Gutei was about to pass away, he said to his assembled monks, "I obtained one-finger Zen from Tenryû and used it all my life but still did not exhaust it."

When he had finished saying this, he entered into eternal Nirvana.
way to go, bodhisattva, eternal nirvana. let's forget about you, 1 finger, u are in nirvana now.
what a joke.
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson

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Spike
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Re: Case 3 Gutei Raises a Finger 三 倶胝堅指 倶胝和尚、凡有詰問、唯擧一指。 Whenever Gutei Oshõ was asked about Zen,

Post by Spike » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:25 am

Suddenly, form is emptiness, eh?

(I'm sure that was not intended)

In the other version, after the boy loses his finger, gutei asks him "what is buddha?" He goes to display his finger (which, in a sick humor mood, one might find hilarious), of course cannot, but gets the knowledge in the act of hand-raising.

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bokki
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Re: Case 3 Gutei Raises a Finger 三 倶胝堅指 倶胝和尚、凡有詰問、唯擧一指。 Whenever Gutei Oshõ was asked about Zen,

Post by bokki » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:44 am

Suddenly, form is emptiness, eh?

(I'm sure that was not intended)

In the other version, after the boy loses his finger, gutei asks him "what is buddha?" He goes to display his finger (which, in a sick humor mood, one might find hilarious), of course cannot, but gets the knowledge from the act of hand-raising.
indeed, very much so, on point, received.

the only point i wanted to make, and i know its bickering,
is Gutei passing into eternal Nirvana.

so, i ask, how come, bodhisattva?
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson

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Spike
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Re: Case 3 Gutei Raises a Finger 三 倶胝堅指 倶胝和尚、凡有詰問、唯擧一指。 Whenever Gutei Oshõ was asked about Zen,

Post by Spike » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:07 am

bokki wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:44 am
the only point i wanted to make, and i know its bickering,
is Gutei passing into eternal Nirvana.

so, i ask, how come, bodhisattva?
I don't "resemble that remark", if you're asking me.

Why not, or where would you have him pass into, bokkisattva?

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bokki
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Re: Case 3 Gutei Raises a Finger 三 倶胝堅指 倶胝和尚、凡有詰問、唯擧一指。 Whenever Gutei Oshõ was asked about Zen,

Post by bokki » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:58 pm

Why not, or where would you have him pass into, bokkisattva?
i don't know, spikesattva.
maybe stick around, Gutei, until all reach nirvana?
maybe he knew the bodhisattvas will quarrel as to who goes last,
and thus avoided it by going into eternal nirvana before them?
beats me.

anyway, case 3 is a powerhouse.
I don't "resemble that remark", if you're asking me.
well, neither do i, thus my silly bickering remark.
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Case 3 Gutei Raises a Finger 三 倶胝堅指 倶胝和尚、凡有詰問、唯擧一指。 Whenever Gutei Oshõ was asked about Zen,

Post by loves' the unjust » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:12 pm

what is the koan mentality in general?

if you think with a calm mind,
you can see that they are for to bring out the monkey mind.

Please do inform me if i am wrong.
There can be koans for different degree of understanding but i'm talking for the main mentality behind the koan.

I'm not an expert on koans.
Nor do i examine all with in this perspective.

am i wrong?
hello mom

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Re: Case 3 Gutei Raises a Finger 三 倶胝堅指 倶胝和尚、凡有詰問、唯擧一指。 Whenever Gutei Oshõ was asked about Zen,

Post by bokki » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:03 pm

i honestly don't think anyone expected you to understand a single koan.
so, in way, you are right.
it brings out a monkeys mind,
nice from you.
if you think with a calm mind,
you can see that they are for to bring out the monkey mind.
no, i don't see, maybe u do.
every koan is a road sign to enlightenment, oneness, and the dynamics of one and all.
sadly, you have your own ideas, fine,
but they are really of the mark.
extremely.
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Case 3 Gutei Raises a Finger 三 倶胝堅指 倶胝和尚、凡有詰問、唯擧一指。 Whenever Gutei Oshõ was asked about Zen,

Post by loves' the unjust » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:10 pm

bokki wrote: no, i don't see, maybe u do.
It's easy.I can see that.
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Re: Case 3 Gutei Raises a Finger 三 倶胝堅指 倶胝和尚、凡有詰問、唯擧一指。 Whenever Gutei Oshõ was asked about Zen,

Post by [james] » Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:06 am

bokki wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:44 am

the only point i wanted to make, and i know its bickering,
is Gutei passing into eternal Nirvana.

so, i ask, how come, bodhisattva?
Like he still has a choice in the matter.
Time’s up when the time is up.
Karma maybe
I’m thinking a bodhisattva has to know when to throw a wrench into the works otherwise, you know ... over and out.

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