A hypothesis

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michaeljc
Posts: 46
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Re: A hypothesis

Post by michaeljc » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:57 am

Avisitor wrote:
You present the hypothesis only because you have a belief in it
How the hell would you know about what I believe in?

I believe that there is an interesting similarity between reported 'awakenings' and some forms of seizure which suggests that ALL Zen mind-states are only this: mind-states generated by, in particular, by Zazen

THAT is ALL!

p22
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 7:49 pm

Re: A hypothesis

Post by p22 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:53 pm

avisitor wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:21 pm
p22 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:18 am
How much of itself does the elephant see?
And this is where metaphors and similes and comparisons break down
Carrying things to the smallest detail
Until there is nothing: open heart, open mind, open hands-

And seizures! 😊

avisitor
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Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:01 am

Re: A hypothesis

Post by avisitor » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:23 pm

michaeljc wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:57 am
Avisitor wrote:
You present the hypothesis only because you have a belief in it
How the hell would you know about what I believe in?
How the hell would one know if you told a lie?
And yet, the FBI and CIA train their agents to do this.
If there was no belief in it and no interest then you would not even bother to present it.
When you sit in a boat and go through water, do you cause a wake behind you?
Or is the wake causing you to move through the water?
Cause and effect??
michaeljc wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:57 am
I believe that there is an interesting similarity between reported 'awakenings' and some forms of seizure which suggests that ALL Zen mind-states are only this: mind-states generated by, in particular, by Zazen

THAT is ALL!
Why do you present such a "Hypothesis"???
Due to what happened to your dear friend and the ensuing experiences you had, along with such gathering of information.

If I presented this hypothesis then maybe there would be no belief in it.
But, looking from whence it came ....

Enough of this. Whatever ... have it your way.

avisitor
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:01 am

Re: A hypothesis

Post by avisitor » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:46 pm

p22 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:53 pm
Until there is nothing: open heart, open mind, open hands-

And seizures! 😊
Seizures have a connotation of being something bad
Uncontrolled and destructive, have seen its effects
When holding the person, they are lost in the shakes, bladder control and such lost
Having to put a stick inside the person's mouth to prevent choking

Sitting on the cushion and experiencing a phenomena really isn't a seizure
Although some could be construed as such if they start pissing all over the place

But, yes, open heart, open mind and open hands

p22
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 7:49 pm

Re: A hypothesis

Post by p22 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:56 pm

avisitor wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:46 pm
p22 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:53 pm
Until there is nothing: open heart, open mind, open hands-

And seizures! 😊
Seizures have a connotation of being something bad
Uncontrolled and destructive, have seen its effects
When holding the person, they are lost in the shakes, bladder control and such lost
Having to put a stick inside the person's mouth to prevent choking

Sitting on the cushion and experiencing a phenomena really isn't a seizure
Although some could be construed as such if they start pissing all over the place

But, yes, open heart, open mind and open hands
Yes, that is your (possibly) actual experience with another's seizure- But not all seizures are equal, some can go totally unnoticed even by the individual experiencing the seizure because they are not violent- They can present as staring out to space or daydreaming, which is how people look when seated- So perhaps when seated, some people experience a seizure like state? Perhaps it's possible- But I don't know-

With very limited information we can present simple theories- Also with limited information come to simple conclusions- Their correctness isn't relevent, only correct in that they were presented-

I believe that you believe that Michael believes- I don't believe that Michael believes his theory- I believe he has done some research, presented some evidence but didn't provide proof -- with the exception of his suggested evidenced based statement regarding superiority- Even with the teeniest, tiniest, most humble of shovels anyone could unearth and provide evidence and proof of that- 😊

p22
Posts: 317
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Re: A hypothesis

Post by p22 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:04 am

This conversation reminds me of these 2 books:


Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blink:_ ... t_Thinking


Talking to Strangers: What We Should Know about the People We Don't Know

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_to_Strangers


Both by Malcolm Gladwell

Larry
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Re: A hypothesis

Post by Larry » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:23 am

He has such a positive name πŸ™‚

Or so I believe :D

p22
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Re: A hypothesis

Post by p22 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:31 pm

Yes, he has a happy name -- I believe .. 😊

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fuki
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Re: A hypothesis

Post by fuki » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:17 am

michaeljc wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:57 am

I believe that there is an interesting similarity between reported 'awakenings' and some forms of seizure...
Ofcourse, It's evident that 99% of the "prophets" in human history where probably "fruit cakes"

What I'm missing is how you have any evidence of any forum members here having abnormal neurological thingies due to their practise.
My silly neuro-hopping is mostly when there's a lack of "practise" or when I'm deluded practise/zazen has anything to do with a "mind"

Anyway's its a treat.
happy halloween.

michaeljc
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:33 am

Re: A hypothesis

Post by michaeljc » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:35 am

Fuki wrote
What I'm missing is how you have any evidence of any forum members here having abnormal neurological thingies due to their practise.
Of course you are missing it as I never claimed it (evidence)
A scientific hypothesis is the initial building block in the scientific method. Many describe it as an "educated guess," based on prior knowledge and observation. ... A hypothesis also includes an explanation of why the guess may be correct, according to National Science Teachers Association.
My explanation as to why the educated guess may be correct is through my intensive research into seizures and my experience in Zen practice. Other's here must do the same to get the gist. There are many forms involving all of the human emotions. Most do not involve convulsions

Apparently most people will be subject to a seizure some time in their life

cheers

m

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fuki
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Re: A hypothesis

Post by fuki » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:12 am

I've had similar hypothesis playing out in my upper fun zone through the years, but I figured building entire wind parks to fuel virtual data centers never seems to end, and as years fly by I'm getting lazier and less thirsty to figure stuff out or "care" about it. Though kudos to all (non-harm-non-profit) scientists.


Just for fun
[SPOILER]
Knowledge, what is to be known, and the knower β€” these three do not exist in reality. I am the spotless reality in which they appear because of ignorance. 2.15

I am pure awareness though through ignorance I have imagined myself to have additional attributes. By continually reflecting like this, my dwelling place is in the Unimagined. 2.17
~Ashta

michaeljc
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Re: A hypothesis

Post by michaeljc » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:05 am

What is it about you Dutch and windmills?

:103:

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fuki
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Location: Zandvoort, the Netherlands

Re: A hypothesis

Post by fuki » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:45 am

:lol:

Not much dutch about it these days.
The Swedish build them and microsoft owns the windparks, we are a tax haven for foreign companies under the disguise of "green energy" local majors trick ppl to approve wind parks which ofcourse aren't used to tackle climate change or benefit the town people, but to profit the filthy rich. Same old same old.

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