Guo Gu - Tallahassee Chan Center

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Guo Gu - Tallahassee Chan Center

Post by fuki » Fri May 29, 2020 2:14 pm

Lately have been re-connecting with Guo Gu and following his dharma talks/teachings, would love to hear about ppl's various teachers/sanghas. (make a new topic)

Here is one of his dharma talks a few weeks ago I'd like to share called "facing death"

https://tallahasseechan.org/teachings/dharma-talks/
https://www.youtube.com/user/Tallahasseechan

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Re: Guo Gu - spiritual bypassing

Post by fuki » Sun May 31, 2020 1:29 pm

Interesting Insights from GG from last monday's talk called "spiritual bypassing"

Especially the part how he points out that the Buddhadharma was designed to 'bypass'


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Re: Guo Gu - Tallahassee Chan Center

Post by el gatito » Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:32 am

fuki wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 2:14 pm
Here is one of his dharma talks a few weeks ago I'd like to share called "facing death"

28:30 - 30:25

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Re: Guo Gu - Tallahassee Chan Center

Post by fuki » Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:52 am

el gatito wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:32 am

28:30 - 30:25
👊👌💪
:111:

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Re: Guo Gu - Tallahassee Chan Center

Post by Larry » Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:38 am

👍

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Re: Guo Gu - Tallahassee Chan Center

Post by fuki » Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:17 am

Latest talk from Guo Go called "embodied experience" Will listen myself after diner but I think this can be of service to people who live (too much) in their heads aka "conflict space" 🙃 but usually GG brings more to his talks then I would suspect just from the title :D
Enjoy 😻

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Re: Guo Gu - Tallahassee Chan Center

Post by Autumnday » Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:05 pm

:waving:

All of Guo Gu's Talks are beneficial and down to earth. Two of the talks posted here are talks that one must listen to for growth, development, and meditation insight: Facing Death and Eboddied Experiencing. Facing Death is more than a lecture on how to die. It is a teaching on how to live. Embodied Experiencing encourages one to calm down and look, and listen, and be in the moment. Guo Gu always finds a way to encourages his students to be in the moment- "moment to moment to moment /Snap Snap Snap."

:bow2:

https://tallahasseechan.org/

https://www.youtube.com/user/Tallahasseechan

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Re: Guo Gu - Tallahassee Chan Center

Post by fuki » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:05 pm

Autumnday wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:05 pm
:waving:

All of Guo Gu's Talks are beneficial and down to earth. Two of the talks posted here are talks that one must listen to for growth, development, and meditation insight: Facing Death and Eboddied Experiencing. Facing Death is more than a lecture on how to die. It is a teaching on how to live. Embodied Experiencing encourages one to calm down and look, and listen, and be in the moment. Guo Gu always finds a way to encourages his students to be in the moment- "moment to moment to moment /Snap Snap Snap."

:bow2:

https://tallahasseechan.org/

https://www.youtube.com/user/Tallahasseechan
My mom is watching the "embodied experience" talk, her English is not good but she says its very helpful for her, she watches it in sections, think she's about half way now
:109:

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Re: Guo Gu - Tallahassee Chan Center

Post by Nothing » Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:33 pm

Autumnday wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:05 pm
:waving:

All of Guo Gu's Talks are beneficial and down to earth. Two of the talks posted here are talks that one must listen to for growth, development, and meditation insight: Facing Death and Eboddied Experiencing. Facing Death is more than a lecture on how to die. It is a teaching on how to live. Embodied Experiencing encourages one to calm down and look, and listen, and be in the moment. Guo Gu always finds a way to encourages his students to be in the moment- "moment to moment to moment /Snap Snap Snap."

:bow2:

https://tallahasseechan.org/

https://www.youtube.com/user/Tallahasseechan
Well said, looking forward for the next talk today/tomorrow :112:
“Here it is--right now. Start thinking about it and you miss it.”
― Huang Po

https://beingwithoutself.org/retreats/

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Re: Guo Gu - Tallahassee Chan Center

Post by fuki » Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:54 pm

Guo Gu's latest talk called Chan Practise in Daily Life
I'm starting it now.... :)


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Re: Guo Gu - Tallahassee Chan Center

Post by fuki » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:00 pm

Guo Gu's latest talk on loving kindness meditation for healing. :)


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Re: Guo Gu - Tallahassee Chan Center

Post by fuki » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:53 am

Clear talk about the relationship between teacher and student, by Guo Gu.


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Re: Guo Gu - spiritual bypassing

Post by p22 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:58 pm

fuki wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 1:29 pm
Interesting Insights from GG from last monday's talk called "spiritual bypassing"

Especially the part how he points out that the Buddhadharma was designed to 'bypass'

Basically, Buddhadharma has a stink built into it- An intentional stench- And no matter how bad the odor, it can be gotten past or gotten away with-

Image

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Re: Guo Gu - spiritual bypassing

Post by fuki » Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:14 pm

p22 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:58 pm

Basically, Buddhadharma has a stink built into it- An intentional stench- And no matter how bad the odor, it can be gotten past or gotten away with-
Not at all, bypassing does not mean escape, "awakening" actually is a gift to uproot one's vasanas, without the buddhadharma there's a reasonable chance I'd committed some crime or get into some kind of troubles due to my habit energies, does not mean the seeds/energies are no longer there. Also awakening does not mean liberation (full buddhahood), it's only freedom to work/transform with unspent energies, without the bypass things would be much worse.

(temporarely) Not visible does not mean escaped or 'released'
320px-Phase_change_-_en.svg.png
320px-Phase_change_-_en.svg.png (21.85 KiB) Viewed 4725 times

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Re: Guo Gu - spiritual bypassing

Post by p22 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:08 am

fuki wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:14 pm
p22 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:58 pm

Basically, Buddhadharma has a stink built into it- An intentional stench- And no matter how bad the odor, it can be gotten past or gotten away with-
Not at all, bypassing does not mean escape, "awakening" actually is a gift to uproot one's vasanas, without the buddhadharma there's a reasonable chance I'd committed some crime or get into some kind of troubles due to my habit energies, does not mean the seeds/energies are no longer there. Also awakening does not mean liberation (full buddhahood), it's only freedom to work/transform with unspent energies, without the bypass things would be much worse.

(temporarely) Not visible does not mean escaped or 'released'
320px-Phase_change_-_en.svg.png
He indicated that the smell escapes the empty (awakened) bottle, that it's released- If it wasn't, no scent would be detected-

So, basically, people can become awakened and still stink- Something terrible- To high heavens- And yet be considered venerable, esteemed, even though they continue/d to be a creep-

And when discussing teachers, one must first lead with pretty praise for their awakened state before mentioning their stink-

I'm glad that you didn't commit a crime- Or much worse- :bow2:

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Re: Guo Gu - spiritual bypassing

Post by fuki » Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:37 pm

p22 wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:08 am


So, basically, people can become awakened and still stink
Yes ofcourse, deluded even.
And when discussing teachers, one must first lead with pretty praise for their awakened state before mentioning their stink-
No why? I've scolded many teachers for their conduct, some of them were very angry with me offline and also on zfi, sometimes my criticism was correct sometimes not, praising and blaming is mostly our own self-referentiality at work, in any relationship there's room for constructive criticism, it's how we grow together. The perfect teacher/being/person is a myth ofcourse. Also there's no entity or person who gets awakened, it's always from the person or imagined seperate entity. And it doesn't mean the bagage or scars we carry magically evaporate, we just no longer suffer from it or are bound by it, and hence we can work with them, for the sake of others/the collective. I don't see ppl's transgressions as private, whether it's trump, hitler, mother teresa or whoever, these are all collective manifestations, afterall ignorance is an omnipresent phenomena, when you do a crime or are a creep, it's "my" crime and creepiness too, since there's only One "I", or "one body". Criticising others is mostly a habit, also self-referential, rarely do I notice criticism is actually intended for the collective benefit. It's again based on setting up the part (me/my views) against the whole, whether it's politics or online zen discussions or the relationships between lovers, parents etc
I'm glad that you didn't commit a crime- Or much worse- :bow2:
I've always noted as a kid there's something deeply innate in me which recognized that potential harm is always due to thoughts generated/conditioned by enviromental changes, so I could never actually do it, I have this kind of "inner protection" However someone who has seeds of drugs in them and spend time with only drugs users there's a change one might actually one day do it, so we water our wholesome seeds and transform our unwholesome seeds, the attraction and affinity we have towards certain people or enviroments like the buddhadharma or a drughouse or whatever manifests when conditions are right, people don't simply choose to do or not do something, like "good" or "bad" or to be a "creep".
Just like we don't choose who to fall in love with.

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Re: Guo Gu - Tallahassee Chan Center

Post by fuki » Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:51 pm

the words from the video talk
[SPOILER]
Tonight's topic is spiritual bypassing.

Two students asked me to talk on this topic

So, I'll offer some comments on it -

Apparently, spiritual bypassing is a technical word

It's a term, that a therapist who is also
a spiritual practitioner, came up with 30 years ago

Observing some of the happenings in Dharma
centers and behaviors of the people there.

So what spiritual bypassing - how this person
- describes it is: his name is Will Wood - it's

that students (by extension, teachers) - use
the Dharma practice as a substitution to avoid

dealing with their own real life issues

Now, many of us come to Buddhist practice

Dharma practice or any spiritual practice

because we want to find some kind of inner
peace, happiness

We want to find some kind of solution to what
we are facing. That's we're feeling...

So, because we're complex human beings with
a whole history of..

..feelings... and the meaning that derives,
that we derive from these experiences..

that we carry with us... throughout our lives..

And many of which are unresolved - naturally
people tend to gravitate towards the methods

of practice

Stages of realization, different experiences,
naturally acquired through practice..

To somehow not face what needs to be faced.

Hence, the word bypassing.

And of course, there is a grayscale of the
range of intensities with which we experience

these issues within us.

This problem of spiritual bypassing (avoiding
facing ourselves)

the human side of our selves... our desires,
our needs, our aspirations...

And the history through which we have lived
our lives..

That have shaped us... is something that was
present even during Shakyamuni Buddha's term

The term may be created 30 years ago, but
this phenomenon goes back to even Early Scriptures

Some Arhats - awakened, liberated beings - they
have some personality problems.

There are cases in which these Arhats

Some of them are cold, aloof

There's even one who has this habit tendency
of scolding people

That may be residues of aversion, anger, resentment,
agitation

Now- do they still harbor the poisons of the
mind?

Namely - greed,hatred,ignorance?

Their intensions are free from them

Do they still manifest that?

Yes

To some extent - why is that?

The analogy I have is like - the wine bottle
- though I don't drink alcohol - this is a

good analogy

You dump out the wine - and you still smell
the wine bottle - it still has the scent of

alcohol

The mental continuum of people, practitioners,
even awakened practitioners, like the Arhats

There is still the scent of the poisons of
the mind.

When does a person actually become free from
that?

Only Full Buddhahood

This is not the Chan/Zen Buddhahood that they
talk about

Like Dzogchen, or even Vipassana, in this
life

It's not that Buddhahood!

This is eons and eons of liberation, perfection
of Enlightenment

Then the stain, the stench, of the poisons
of the mind will completely

disappear. Short of that, you can pretty much
guarantee -

That all practitioners are working with these
issues

This brings up a point -

Is it possible to reach Awakening without
resolving these issues?

Yes!

What do you call that?

Spiritual bypassing.

You can bypass that.

If you have to work through all of these issues
- and then at the end of the tunnel - you

reach Awakening ...

No. It's too long.

It's not even possible

It is possible, however, to have glimpses
- or even deep, profound experience of Awakening,

that lasts months, weeks, years

And have these issues.

This is a fundamental issue -

Buddha dharma practice is not psycho therapy

It is not a way to - in a sense - to, better
ourselves...

Or... improve our personality.

It's not!

It can be all the perfections of Buddhist
practice.

It's meant to transform these deep embedded
stench of vexations.

So, it includes that- but it's not he actual
goal

What is the actual goal?

Freedom.

I'll get back to this point..

What is the goal of psychotherapy? Or therapy
in general?

According to Freud, he phrased it -

I will hold this humorously - this is from
"hysteric misery" to bring them from this

to a shared common level of...

...a basic unhappiness.

That's how he framed it. Freud.

I think we have gone a long way in modern
therapy, beyond what Freud defines it!

To the level of happiness.

A sense of fulfillment.

Being at ease connected to other aspects of
others.. and, content..

content with all of our issues.

Personality issues.

There is a history to why we are the way we
are.

Most of this happens in a ..

.. how we have come to be how we are..

Happens through osmosis, gradually.

Day by day.

Thought by thought.

The ways in which we have strung together
these thoughts and feelings... through the

days.. weeks.. months..

Decades.. years...

They have formatted us to be a particular
way.

It's almost self evident, in a way
that we have made the link between these moments

of experiences, linking them.

Giving rise to a sense of permanence. A sense
of continuity.

Of me. I. Mine.

These links are made at an unconscious level

They may have begun when we were children..

..the survival mechanisms through which we
came up with our childish minds..

..not to belittle children, but, the mind
that we had when we were children -

the survival mechanisms, the strategies of
survival - to cope with what is happening

around us -

In this whirlwind of flux and change

We've learned.

The problem is, we have carried these outdated,
decade old, survival strategies, into our

adulthood.

Even though they don't really work!

That's what I see the genius of good therapy
can do.

They make these subliminal, undercurrent mechanisms
of strategies... surface.

And, conscious. So you can make the unconscious
conscious.

This is what I call "exposing".

"Embracing"

Working through" - then "letting go" - these
4 fold processes.

This genuine necessary..

process of going through these stages

and it's not linear, by the way

it's Reciprocal

The more we expose, the e more we can accept

The more we accept, the more we expose, and
then

we can work through them

and be at peace.

So, I see the genius of

therapy as having the potential

to accomplish this

Buddhadharma...

focuses on that which is most important.

Freedom.

And the necessary prerequisites for this freedom

it identifies, for example in Yogacara, the
consciousness only school

It identifies the necessary mental factors
that must be present for

practice. It must be cultivated.

And, the negative mental factors, the unwholesome
ones

The root ones - that must be dealt with

52 diff. mental factors

that means we only have 52 different mental
states -

we are so complex!

But they don't deal with that

Why?

Because it's not necessary to reach liberation

To reach Awakening

You don't have to go through all of that

To deal with all of our issues.

What is what needs to be done?

What can be done?

Focus on those.

And the person will be able to be freed.

So in that sense, it is a kind of ..

..bypassing. If you will.

But in order to be whole.

To be a good person.

To be responsible.

We have to deal with our issues.

We have to deal with all of the complex, human
sides of our

.. experiences.. and meaning.

This requires a good teacher.

This requires clear, good instructions.

On what practice is,

how the mind works.

And, part of that practice involves validating
-

our personal history, of who we are.

That's why it's important - my teacher has
laid out this blueprint - if you will

of affirming the self.

Maturing the self.

Then, letting go of the self.

You can't really work on ourselves without...
affirming ourselves

Without validating our human experiences,
our past

This is what shaped us - our rearing process

The way we have strategized to survive.

How to reconcile this sense of lacking inside.

From our limited development brain!

This is the human side, it's not fully developed
in the mid 20s

So whatever strategies when we're 5, 6, or
teenagers -

it's limited.

So, skewed.

For example, children .. in traditional Buddhism
..

we don't teach them how to really engage in
meditation..

until they're about maybe 11.

7-11..

Why? B/c earlier than that, they cannot engage
in abstract thinking

They cannot distinguish themselves from the
thought

Whatever they think of - that is what they
are

They can't disassociate that

The brain hasn't completed the wiring process

They can meditate, some fun things to meditate
on

but they cannot go deep in meditation

Because their brain cannot distinguish between
thinking discursively and awareness of that

There is no distance, or space to see thoughts,
and be able to let it go.

So, development process.

Whatever strategy we have, in our inability
to think abstractly -

E.g. Mommy/Daddy go to work, they're tired.

I want their attention. I need their love.
But they're tired

But what I sense - I can't engage in abstract
thinking - Mom/Dad are tired. I have to give

them space, then when we have time, they can
play with me!

It doesn't mean they don't love me.

What they feel in that moment is..

this embodied feeling of unloved.

I'm not loved.

And they have come up with particular strategies

Survival tactics to mend the situation

So there are 4 strategies -

1) Pleasing.

And you see this in people, after you hear
this - the Pleasing type

So they don't have love, so they do something
to be a good boy, or a good girl, to have

the affection.

Or whatever way they can come up with -

the first type, Pleasing

2) Blaming.

This is kind of anger. The first type has
some resonance - in Buddhism - desire - the

first poison

The second one - aversion. Manifests as aversion.

They've already done this, that's why I'm
like this.

That's aversion.

3) They don't try to please. They don't try
to blame...

They resorted to themselves. Keep themselves
busy.

Or they evade the issue at hand, how they
feel

They don't know what to do with it - feeling
unloved.. so they do something else

That's Distracting

Self-Distracting

The type of people, when there's one joker-
anything serious, they have to make a joke

To lighten up the situation

It's a kind of distracting

And we distract ourselves, when we face difficulty

I have a friend - his wife was giving birth

very intense - first child, he doesn't know
what to do

"Honey, I have to go wash the car now"

So he went downstairs, and went to a car washer
and start to - distracting!

Whenever he encounters things, he does something
else.

4) Also comes from not blaming, not pleasing,
but kind of..

Resorting to oneself..

And these are very intelligent children ...

And somehow they have tapped into that intelligence

Where they can actually rationalize.

They can think through stuff.

Maybe not so young as children, but older

They've learned rationalizing.

And very good at analyzing situations

They still have suppressed feelings - like
unloved -

but they justify it through their rationalization
an thinking

1) Pleasing 2) Blaming 3) Distracting 4) Rationalizing

And much of this, this is just 1 side of the
equation

The other side is, these mechanisms is actually
learned through the body.

They have completely embodied it.

The body has the intelligence of these 4 modes
of...

strategy.

So they've developed

Physiologically, corporeal responses to these
experiences.

I would say at a cellular level

Every part/fiber of our being

Have these qualities.

It's like, muscle memory

Piano player, guitar player ...

Their body is so Intune with /in sync with
knowledge of musical notes

They don't have to go through thinking anymore

They've embodied it

So they see the scores, and can see the music,
and start playing

Or encounter a situation, and automatically
go into that.

In neuroscience, this is called the enteroception.

Our brain is not reactive. It's moment to
moment, interpretation

It continues to predict what will happen

With the luggage that we carry from our past

So, these survival mechanisms are continually
at work

Now, many of the higher level of Buddhist
practice

Do not really deal with this.

Because, at the basic level

Behavioral level

the Buddha dharma way of dealing with is by
Precepts

so Arhats, with unresolved with issues with
their child rearing process they've gone through

They still reach Arhathood

But because of the absence of the poisons
of the mind

With guarding of the Precepts, frees them
from hurting other people

It's impossible for them to break Precepts

So at the Foundational level, the upholding
of the Precepts, serves as a guard, from Ourselves,

for Ourselves...

And of course. Others. Harmonizing with others.

So Precepts are very important

At the median level - the 8/10 perfections,
8fold path - look it up on Google

They work with emotions, it's not really talked
about like this way from other Buddhist teachers,

but

This is the way I talk about it

They work with our emotions

the 6 perfections - generosity is a particular
mental feeling.

It's a particular tone. For a person to do
giving, charity

So it's important to cultivate that

In addition to actually generosity

Spiritual advise, and so on

Sharing of the Dharma

But what's crucial here is the mental factor

the undercurrent tone of feelings

That Generosity, mindset...

..nourishes a particular type of feeling

Same thing with Precepts

that vigilance. Ethical conduct of not harming
oneself and others

It's a particular feeling tone

A connection with others

Connected - also to ourselves.

Likewise with diligence.

Patience.

Meditation practice.

Even wisdom

When it's involved with interpersonal relationships

Compassion is the action of wisdom

The kind of sensitivity one has with self
and others

These are ways the 6 perfections - a way to
work with our emotions -

a way to work with ourselves...

But the top level - methods - they don't deal
with this.

For example Huatou, Gong'an

This... this is a practice originally designed
on the foundation of Mahayana, on the 6 perfections

If you divorce that from the Foundation, what
you have is..

spiritual bypassing.

The Koan practice.

Whatever come up, put it down

Vexation put it down. What is it?

You raise the koan.

You're not meant to ...

Experience them!

Same thing with similar practices

If you have a triangle... the top level if
free from foundational intermediate practices.

That work on ourselves

So, if people only focus on that

You'll have problems.

If you don't have the foundation or Precepts

and cause havoc to the Dharma center, student/teacher
relationship

All kinds of issues that we can see...

in centers, these days.

So, it's like building a house

You have to build the 1st floor, then the
2nd floor, then enjoy yourself on the 3rd

floor

You can't just build the 3rd floor without

a foundation, scaffolding.

At the minimum, some minimum scaffolding.

Scaffolding as Precepts.

But more foundation is quite rich, also

The stronger the foundation, the better the
perfection practice, and the deeper you are

to get into the higher teachings.

But even at the foundational, or intermediate

Like I said before, Buddhadharma is not really
about..

...bringing a person to a state of happiness..

resolved, kind of personal issues

It's not meant to do that

It only cultivates the necessary qualities
for freedom

For liberation

You can see it in the 6 perfections

what are the necessary...?

You can see it in the intermediate methods.
loving kindness. compassion.

And, the foundational practices of how to
be a good person, filial, devotional to ones

parents

How to be a good neighbor..

these issues.

In East Asia, we have our own foundational
practice.

.. that value humility, gratitude, Buddhadharma
also has that

So, these must be the foundation.

It must be cultivated, nourished

for the sake of working through some of our
issues.

But, what I want to say so far -

1) Spiritual bypassing has been around for
thousands of years

Buddhism cultivated in a particular way

can be said to be a kind of spiritual bypassing

It's focused on liberations

Does it have aspects that deal with upbringing?
Yes it does

But it's not necessary.

The bare minimum will do.

Of working through yourself

Founded on precepts.

Founded on just basic humanity

common sense, being a good person

That's sufficient.

But the real life of living out our lives..

We can't be jerks.

Very often, like I've said, we carry our outdated
modes of survival tactics into adulthood.

So we are kind of blind sighted, we don't
see it!

They're so ingrained in us.

So, these 2 aspects of therapy, which is meant
to unearth, or make conscious these unconscious

strategies

and Buddhadharma - meant for liberation

They can coexist. And work together.

And the way I have taught my students,

and the way I teach -

especially in the last, I'd say, 5-7 years
-

is, this practice of what I call - embodied
experiencing.

It's important to understand what this is

In Buddhadharma, Awakening is not the product
of practice

It's something we already have

What is Awakening?

Not a mystical experience

or something outside ourselves

Acquired experience, knowledge...

Past history...

IT is right here.

In this moment.

the most natural, fundamental way of being

It is this awareness.

Freed awareness

From the shackles of

of the narratives, the stories, the words
and language...

the interpretations..

The survival strategies

What I call - furniture.

Awareness - which is what we already have
- it's the

The problem is,

we're not conscious . not participants of
what we are aware of

or experiencing

We're just .. on automatic pilot, projecting
our past

Into the present

Into the future.

So, the most direct way to bring these 2 together

The healing part of ourselves ...

And the fundamental freedom of what we are
...

Is through awareness.

I typically don't talk about awareness.

I talk about it sometimes.

But I've found that using that word

because everyone uses it - it's so vague

to the extent, that nobody knows what the
hell we're talking about

What is it referring to?

The words I use - experiencing.

Experiencing.

This experiencing is already embodied!

The experiencing of the eye. Ear. Nose. Tongue.
Body. Mind.

It's already embodied.

Embodied experiencing.

Moment to moment to moment.

You're already experiencing.

In this experiencing .. we've cluttered it,
with so much furniture

Luggage!

That we don't really know what we are experiencing!

We're just repeating our habit tendencies.

Following the contents of our thoughts and
feelings...

So, the practice is - that I teach..

..stems from, my years of practice, decades
of practicing, silent illumination -

and complementary practice of direct contemplation

Coupled with correct attitude

Of be able to unearth - excavate - all the
clutter.

All of our histories.

All of our survival mechanisms.

Cultivating that clarity to not try to change
it

Not try to improve it

This is very important.

But completely vulnerable and accept it.

Without interpreting it.

Because the mind's habit is to interpret

Reify, solidify, and build a story around
it.

So we refrain from - label, judgement, narratives
... storylines.

We simply aware.

We simply embody experiencing.

Whatever that may be.

The key is ...
Our habit tendencies is to make links

Of our day to day, moment to moment, month
to month, year by year..

decades of decades.. of experiencing, linking
it to narratives

To a permanent self evident sense of me, I, Mine
And that is due to the linking, interpreting, our interpreting - our
need for meaning it's propelled us to do this.

This is what we've always done, and all we've
ever known

So, if we are completely open and vulnerable

Allowing things to come up

A lot of things will come up!

Our interpretation, our memory ..

Thoughts, feelings..

We have to not judge.

Not interpret

We have to completely accept.

When we accept, we will discover

I will put it in stages of practice

Please don't reify them in practice - ah,
I'm on the 3rd stage, maybe to the 4th

Just presenting it as a linear practice for
conventions stage

and it serves a function, but it's a reciprocal
process

So it's not in a sequence, but I’ll lay
out one:

When we have feelings of sadness, grief, or
sense of loss ..

Self disparagement..

When we catch ourselves, projecting onto other
people our wishes, when we want this moment

to be other than what it is

We want it to be different, just drop everything

Feel. Embody. Tap into the body.

Our body has its own intelligence

You have to be in tune with it

completely open to the body

not up here, and not top heavy

Down here, ground yourself.

you will discover beneath the layer of storyline.

There are undercurrent feeling tones.

Self trashing.

Inadequacy.

Not good enough.

Loathing.

Or a particular need.

Sadness.

That's not where you stop!

Let these things come out. They will flow
out

If you feel like crying, cry!

Relax into these embodied feelings

Let it flow through you

Completely accept

Even beneath these layers of feeling tones...

What is that?

Corporeal, physiological... sensations.

You will start to identify different area
of the body

Holding some of these emotions

Decade old.

Survival mechanisms

You will.

What do you do?

Continue to open!

Continue to be vulnerable

You can lay down in a bed if you want, whatever
it may be

Completely open to it

Ground yourself in the bod

and you will discover at the level of the
body

First storyline, then undercurrent tone, then
raw sensations

Beneath the raw sensation, you can still feel
something -

what is that?

Just raw energies.

A few years ago, I've ...

opened up myself.. last year was particularly
strong.

Opened up myself and sometimes these things
come

So I identify 4 stages

Interpreting, thoughts, feelings, undercurrent
feeling tone, raw sensation

Corporeal, energies.

So I've opened up myself

It's kind of like an emotional breakdown

I discovered - kind of - feelings about my
mother!

And, my relationship.

It just came out spontaneously.

I was watching a movie. I was watching Spiderman.

I forget which one.

So I saw the Spiderman - and his girlfriend
dies -

And what I saw in that moment, when she died
-

A flood of things just came up

Has nothing to do with the movie

I was kind of paralyzed.

I just sat there

These feelings just came

And I opened myself.

Eventually I just laid down on the bed.. and,
I was travelling.

And teaching.

I was at the last day of the retreat, and
laying there-

I couldn't move.

All day the flood was coming out

The interpreting

and quickly shifted into a feeling tone

and just a unfulfilled love.

Like, just unloved.

But it wasn't me, I mine. It was just.. these
feelings

Why?

Because I'm not in the vortex

"Yeah I am feeling unloved!"

I'm not identifying myself

I'm just open.

I'm allowing it to be.

And more interpretation, memories, open, open..

I was there, I don't know how long - couple
of hours

And it just became sensations.

Just
embodied different parts

For me, it's all around - chest and here,
and I continue..

And that didn't - when I came to -

it was so powerful, this experience -

And subsequent months -

I continue to have smaller episode of that

until I realized, it's not really a breakdown

It's actually a kind of breakthrough.

These experiences.

Because as it unfolded - the narratives, and
the memories, and the experiences, and how

it's lodged...

I became clear of what is and how it is, and
has happened.

So I know the narrative part, I realized the
undercurrent feeling tone part

I understood the raw bodily experience part

I wasn't in my head

I was completely exposed and vulnerable. I

I allowed it to be.

Like the spaciousness of the experience

And the furniture, so much! So much came out.

Is it me? It's part of my history..

but in working with that, I'm less identified
to my past

I'm less identified with that, my history

it's there - and more and more I'm freed from
it

And because I see these different layers

I'm doing what the psychotherapists do! But
it's self practice

I'm excavating the unconscious.

The things that blind sighted me, I see it

And subsequent to that, I continue to have
unfolding of these experiences

and I made mistakes.

I made mistakes.

But I see through them now.

We expose.

We embrace.

We work through.

We let go.

As honestly, and humanely as possible to ourselves.

If we don't do that, these hidden tendencies
will ruin our relationship

Our Dharma practice

And you will negatively engage in spiritual
bypassing

There is a harmful way

And there is a naturally designed way of Buddhadharma

Because Buddhadharma is not meant to deal
with therapeutic way

That's a kind of bypassing, for Awakening

That's the way it was designed

But sometimes what impedes/hinders us, is
our human side

These issues.

So, for me, these 4 types..

1) Pleasing, 2) Blaming, 3) Distracting, 4)
Rationalizing

For me - it's a combination - for everyone,
it'

It's a percentage, for me pleasing, and quite
common for practitioners

I did that with my teacher!

He was like a father to me.

I came to the States, and had no father figure,
so I projected on my teacher

So even as his attendant - I have that thing
going on.

But he - the way he taught me - he himself
is the super rational type

The third type.

So he can see right through what the hell
I was doing, and cut it off

So I felt unloved!

Or publicly humiliating me.

Made me face that.

The more I practice now, the more I can appreciate
him.

And the way that relationship was.

Practice after all, is a kind of relationship

Relating to ourselves, to others, to the Dharma

So, I was able to see the way I tend to relate
to other people, and so on

So my analytical mind - is strong -

you can say - but this aspect of pleasing
is very strong

Stronger.

So, having discovered this and working through
this

Still - I abide myself on the principle of
Buddhadharma

You're already free. There's freedom here

The spaciousness.

I know the furniture, I don't need to identify
with the furniture

That's not to say I suppress them. Deny them,
or am blind sighted by them

I'm not.

I know they're there

They don't define me

Like in your house!

There’s a lot of furniture

Do they define you?

They're not you

The point is not to throw them away

You can use them, recycle them, make it useable.

You don't deny it

Though I have to avoid spiritual bypassing,
so I can focus on myself - self care ... this

other side

You can do some of that, but please don't
turn Buddhadharma into some kind of therapy

It's not what it's meant to do!

That's the other side

Dharma as therapy.

And spiritual bypassing.

That's also problematic as well.

The last thing you want is to feed into this
tendency

Of, self care, of healing myself - acknowledging
.. and really

what you don't want to do is wallow.

Don't want to do that. That makes a hindrance.

All we have is - the present moment.

The present moment.

So good therapy will also tell us there. It's
also about the present

The more you reify the past, and something
to heal and fix, improve

the more problems you'll have

You will never heal.

So always focus on the present

being present to it!

Exposing... thoroughly embracing.. working
through.. facing them.

Because it is our intrinsic freedom, this
awareness, this embodied experience

that every one of us have, the Tathagatagarbha

This experiencing that will save us

It is free, we have to consciously participate,
align our self into it

And face it.

When we do this - effortlessly -

don't put effort into fixing ourselves!

You put effort into participating it.

Chan Chan. So investigate, completely embody,
participate.

That is how you free yourself.

That is how you work through what needs to
be done, what can be done, for Awakening.

You don't have to work through every one of
your childhood problems!

It's sufficient to work with what should be
done, what can be done

Once you have Awakened, you have to Awaken
again and again and again....

Once you have that, the stronger your compass
is - then you come back to work through those

things

In the midst of engaging with the world.

That's how you discover your shortcoming

Your pleasing, blaming, rationalizing, distracting

Layers upon layers of it

You won't get lost!

Why? You've already tasted Freedom.

you won't get lost.

So that's what Chan/Zen practice aims at

It's called Sudden Awakening

You aim for that which is you

That which you already have

Experiencing.

Already free.

Personally you must personally experience
this

have a good teacher

Good support sangha

and you practice.

and you won't get lost.

You've tasted freedom.

Is the work done?

Hell no.

There's so much work to be done.

The human side.

The history that has made us who we are.

The shortcomings and we engage in the Bodhisattva
path.

It's a long journey.

No need to hurry.

Just practice.

p22
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 7:49 pm

Re: Guo Gu - Tallahassee Chan Center

Post by p22 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:04 am

Breathe- Pay attention- Breathe- Everything is a lesson- Breathe- Recognize compassion- Breathe- Everybody stinks-

Being called by true names isn't blaming- It's vicarious, life-saving, compassionate, recognition- Fleeting perfect teachings- Do, don't do- Flowery, fucked-up-

True love and true stink are mutually inclusive-

Thank you for the transcript! I appreciate it and am sure others do too- They're great to refer to-

avisitor
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:01 am

Re: Guo Gu - spiritual bypassing

Post by avisitor » Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:34 am

p22 wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:08 am
So, basically, people can become awakened and still stink- Something terrible- To high heavens- And yet be considered venerable, esteemed, even though they continue/d to be a creep-
My understanding of this ...
The first awakenings don't mean much if none of the other things of being a Bodhisattva follows
It needs to be integrated into daily life.
Wisdom and compassion, 10 precepts, helping others, all of the good stuff
And those, who don't work upon it in daily life, end up with a faded memory (no real change)
(Although in life, may hold a high position)

After the disciple's awakening, the disciple was asked, "What was gained?"
The disciple said, "Nothing".
The disciple already had Buddha nature
Nothing was gained.

p22
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 7:49 pm

Re: Guo Gu - spiritual bypassing

Post by p22 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:03 am

avisitor wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:34 am
p22 wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:08 am
So, basically, people can become awakened and still stink- Something terrible- To high heavens- And yet be considered venerable, esteemed, even though they continue/d to be a creep-
My understanding of this ...
The first awakenings don't mean much if none of the other things of being a Bodhisattva follows
It needs to be integrated into daily life.
Wisdom and compassion, 10 precepts, helping others, all of the good stuff
And those, who don't work upon it in daily life, end up with a faded memory (no real change)
(Although in life, may hold a high position)

After the disciple's awakening, the disciple was asked, "What was gained?"
The disciple said, "Nothing".
The disciple already had Buddha nature
Nothing was gained.
I don't know- I don't know that the memory fades- But there appears to be a lapse of some sort or onset of ignorance that comes and goes- Could also be by choice-

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