Meditation, Zazen

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avisitor
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Meditation, Zazen

Post by avisitor » Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:22 pm

Stillness, just sitting, watching breath in and out.

Comments, explanations, thoughts???

Larry
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Re: Meditation, Zazen

Post by Larry » Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:35 pm

🙏

el gatito
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Re: Meditation, Zazen

Post by el gatito » Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:48 pm

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jundocohen
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Re: Meditation, Zazen

Post by jundocohen » Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:51 pm

avisitor wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:22 pm
Stillness, just sitting, watching breath in and out.

Comments, explanations, thoughts???
Stillness is all the activity of the world.

Just sitting ain't just sitting around. The whole universe just sits us.

Watching what is watched is no watched or watcher

In and out drops all border of in or out.

:109:

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fuki
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Re: Meditation, Zazen

Post by fuki » Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:27 pm

avisitor wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:22 pm
Stillness, just sitting, watching breath in and out.

Comments, explanations, thoughts???
"Aware spaciousness" "just being(neither centre or circumference)" "natural state" "relax"
Something like that wordy stuff :D

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fuki
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Re: Meditation, Zazen

Post by fuki » Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:28 pm

el gatito wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:48 pm
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:hatsoff:

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fuki
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Re: Meditation, Zazen

Post by fuki » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:21 am

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fuki
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Re: Meditation, Zazen

Post by fuki » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:21 am

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avisitor
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Re: Meditation, Zazen

Post by avisitor » Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:24 pm

jundocohen wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:51 pm
Stillness is all the activity of the world.

Just sitting ain't just sitting around. The whole universe just sits us.

Watching what is watched is no watched or watcher

In and out drops all border of in or out.

:109:
Thanks for the reply.
In and out?
Stillness and activity?
sitting ain't sitting??
Duality view of the world?
:112:

avisitor
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Re: Meditation, Zazen

Post by avisitor » Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:26 pm

fuki wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:27 pm
"Aware spaciousness" "just being(neither centre or circumference)" "natural state" "relax"
Something like that wordy stuff :D
Yes, wordy stuff.
Weighs heavy upon the mind.

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fuki
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Re: Meditation, Zazen

Post by fuki » Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:34 pm

avisitor wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:26 pm

Weighs heavy upon the mind.
You mean the "samsaric mind" right?
Not at all though I've never tried to weigh the sky it doesn't matter if there are clouds or not.
Speaking of clouds/flowers....
http://www.buddhism.org/Sutras/2/Sutras31.htm

avisitor
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Re: Meditation, Zazen

Post by avisitor » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:17 pm

In the beginning, this mind is constantly working, talking
So, began with counting breaths
That turned into two parts
One which mechanically counted the breaths
And another which watched the counting of breath
Soon bored and lost to sleep
Was told I snore very loudly

Later, tried to control the mind with controlling the breath
Slowed breath down to slow the mind
Of course, that wasn't the task given

Spoke with others about meditation
One person said they could turn off the mental voice or inner dialogue for hours
Seemed impressive??
Again, it is not the task given

Was reading about monks of the past
Some were told their mind like a mirror, to keep it clean
And, then Buddhadharma went to the monks in China (Shaolin)
There was a passage about him taking a roof tile and trying to polish it
When asked about it, he said he was trying to polish a roof tile into a mirror
Around Shaolin, he went to a nearby cave and sat for nine years
The monks brought him food but he never ate it

Meditation used to quiet this mind
Stillness, Concentration
To let this mind go and see the true nature
But, how does one use this mind to let go of this mind?
Hence, polishing roof tiles into mirrors
It cannot be done

Then some people talk about mindfulness in daily activities.
.....

avisitor
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Re: Meditation, Zazen

Post by avisitor » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:19 pm

fuki wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:34 pm
You mean the "samsaric mind" right?
Not at all though I've never tried to weigh the sky it doesn't matter if there are clouds or not.
Speaking of clouds/flowers....
http://www.buddhism.org/Sutras/2/Sutras31.htm
Float like a butterfly and sting like a bee
:hatsoff:

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fuki
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Re: Meditation, Zazen

Post by fuki » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:40 pm

avisitor wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:17 pm
Then some people talk about...
Words are causes and conditions just like the myriad of 'expedient means/methods' which form what is locally known as Buddhism, a teacher has learned to hand expedient means based on the individual student, online talk can be helpful but for me it's mostly about sharing/connecting with friends dharma family, just like the buddhadharma it serves as an inspiration. Ofcourse many of the talking and comparing about which chef's flavour is the "best" or "what works" is silly for whatever's best is that what (temporarely) works for the practisioner, all explanations are only to please the mind, it's just about inspiring and sharing (for me) In any case if what one hears or reads doesn't bring about an internal reaction like an arrow hitting its mark, it can do no good anyway (for me)

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fuki
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Re: Meditation, Zazen

Post by fuki » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:41 pm

avisitor wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:19 pm

Float like a butterfly and sting like a bee
:hatsoff:
:105:
:D
:115:

avisitor
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Re: Meditation, Zazen

Post by avisitor » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:54 pm

fuki wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:40 pm
Words are causes and conditions just like the myriad of 'expedient means/methods' which form what is locally known as Buddhism, a teacher has learned to hand expedient means based on the individual student, online talk can be helpful but for me it's mostly about sharing/connecting with friends dharma family, just like the buddhadharma it serves as an inspiration. Ofcourse many of the talking and comparing about which chef's flavour is the "best" or "what works" is silly for whatever's best is that what (temporarely) works for the practisioner, all explanations are only to please the mind, it's just about inspiring and sharing (for me) In any case if what one hears or reads doesn't bring about an internal reaction like an arrow hitting its mark, it can do no good anyway (for me)
Just wanting to share some of the mistakes I have made along the way.
Some of these mistakes can take years before one realizes
And like some others have done, they warn of sitting in a lazy state of mind
Of course, there will be some who do not understand

Yes, all explanations are to please the mind.
But, without explanations, then there is no way to inspire and share
Without explanations, it can not bring about an internal reaction like an arrow hitting its mark.
There no other expedient means available to me.
fuki wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:41 pm
avisitor wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:19 pm

Float like a butterfly and sting like a bee
:hatsoff:
:105:
:D
:115:
:bow2:

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fuki
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Re: Meditation, Zazen

Post by fuki » Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:06 pm

avisitor wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:54 pm
Just wanting to share some of the mistakes I have made along the way.
Some of these mistakes can take years before one realizes
And like some others have done, they warn of sitting in a lazy state of mind
Of course, there will be some who do not understand

Yes, all explanations are to please the mind.
But, without explanations, then there is no way to inspire and share
Without explanations, it can not bring about an internal reaction like an arrow hitting its mark.
There no other expedient means available to me.
:bow2:
Exactly you just nailed what "sangha" or "spiritual friendship" means to me. :D

I enjoy reading your observations (in all the wiped out zenspaces too) I can relate to all those "mistakes" and "see throughs" wonderful to share them with each other. Just said this somewhere else today, I notice on many forums/platforms ppl dont openly share perhaps "afraid" of public speech, ppl say forums are inactive but I get many pm's and its members share beautiful insights/observations which if posted publically could inspire (or vexate haha) others. I made a "fool" of myself countless times, who cares about saying the "right or wrong" thing, it's never been about "you" or "me" anyway
:hatsoff:

avisitor
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Re: Meditation, Zazen

Post by avisitor » Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:11 pm

fuki wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:06 pm
I enjoy reading your observations (in all the wiped out zenspaces too) I can relate to all those "mistakes" and "see throughs" wonderful to share them with each other. Just said this somewhere else today, I notice on many forums/platforms ppl dont openly share perhaps "afraid" of public speech, ppl say forums are inactive but I get many pm's and its members share beautiful insights/observations which if posted publically could inspire (or vexate haha) others. I made a "fool" of myself countless times, who cares about saying the "right or wrong" thing, it's never been about "you" or "me" anyway
:hatsoff:
Thanks.
:107:

avisitor
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Re: Meditation, Zazen

Post by avisitor » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:04 am

Have noticed that sometimes when sitting, my mind keeps talking, thinking
I will continue the task of watching breath, "IN" and "OUT".
But, the force of the monkey mind works its way
It may take a little time before things settle
Or, it just doesn't settle.
Have noticed that When this happens that asking myself a question which there is no answer
It stops the attention from drifting and keeps things in the present moment
Well, for a moment.

avisitor
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Re: Meditation, Zazen

Post by avisitor » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:10 pm

avisitor wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:04 am
Have noticed that sometimes when sitting, my mind keeps talking, thinking
I will continue the task of watching breath, "IN" and "OUT".
But, the force of the monkey mind works its way
It may take a little time before things settle
Or, it just doesn't settle.
Have noticed that When this happens that asking myself a question which there is no answer
It stops the attention from drifting and keeps things in the present moment
Well, for a moment.
Have wanted to do Koans but have not yet found a place nor teacher for that.
So, I keep the practice that was given to me
And sometimes get side track with how some things work or not work
Yeah, I may be doing it all wrong but that is part of the journey

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