Intensity

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Turtle Clan
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Intensity

Post by Turtle Clan » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:22 am

What is it that distinguishes subtle degrees of intensity?
What is it that responds to the the flows and fluctuations of intensity and can know exactly when to settle, exactly where on this wave of physical and mental sensation to experience rest?


Give me your best zen answers to this question.

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jundocohen
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Re: Intensity

Post by jundocohen » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:40 am

Turtle Clan wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:22 am
What is it that distinguishes subtle degrees of intensity?
What is it that responds to the the flows and fluctuations of intensity and can know exactly when to settle, exactly where on this wave of physical and mental sensation to experience rest?


Give me your best zen answers to this question.
There is rest is intensity, there is rest in rest. This cannot be measured, and is beyond all gauges and rules. The water is wet when the wave is high, the sea is just as much the sea when the waves are low or still as glass.

Gassho, J

Turtle Clan
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Re: Intensity

Post by Turtle Clan » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:05 am

jundocohen wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:40 am
There is rest is intensity, there is rest in rest. This cannot be measured, and is beyond all gauges and rules.

Gassho, J
As I see it, intensity is the opposite of rest (so I am already measuring and applying conditions and preferences). Ie., I don’t see the possibility of resting in intensity. Why would I? Intensity is diluted by bringing rest into it.

The question though concerns the qualities, if any, of what it is. What it is that is involved in the arising of experience? What is the substance of experience?

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jundocohen
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Re: Intensity

Post by jundocohen » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:19 am

Turtle Clan wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:05 am
jundocohen wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:40 am
There is rest is intensity, there is rest in rest. This cannot be measured, and is beyond all gauges and rules.

Gassho, J
As I see it, intensity is the opposite of rest (so I am already measuring and applying conditions and preferences). Ie., I don’t see the possibility of resting in intensity. Why would I? Intensity is diluted by bringing rest into it.

The question though concerns the qualities, if any, of what it is. What it is that is involved in the arising of experience? What is the substance of experience?
Perhaps an aspect of Zen practice is to experience the opposite of "seeing opposites." :116: I assure you that one can know total rest at the most restless times in life, and the intensity of sometimes being intense and sometimes being intensely dull as an old blade.

The intensity of experience is to thoroughly allow this moment of experience to be intensely what it is, which sometimes feels intense and sometimes not at all.

To take speed, to get on a roller coaster, to jump from a plane ... all INTENSE! To be bored out of one's mind right here on the ground ... INTENSE!

Please know the rest of intensity, the intensity of intensity, the rest of rest, the intensity of rest. Why would you think them not the same?

Gassho, J

el gatito
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Re: Intensity

Post by el gatito » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:58 am

Turtle Clan wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:22 am
What is it that responds to the the flows and fluctuations of intensity and can know exactly when to settle, exactly where on this wave of physical and mental sensation to experience rest?
I thought of a pair: a musician (intensity of effort) and the listener (intensity of experience) "working" together to investigate.

Say, the musician intentionally makes a "pause" in the middle of intensity.

The listener has no other choice but to experience the silent "continuation" of what has just suddenly stopped.

Turtle Clan
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Re: Intensity

Post by Turtle Clan » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:35 am

jundocohen wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:19 am
Turtle Clan wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:05 am
jundocohen wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:40 am
There is rest is intensity, there is rest in rest. This cannot be measured, and is beyond all gauges and rules.

Gassho, J
As I see it, intensity is the opposite of rest (so I am already measuring and applying conditions and preferences). Ie., I don’t see the possibility of resting in intensity. Why would I? Intensity is diluted by bringing rest into it.

The question though concerns the qualities, if any, of what it is. What it is that is involved in the arising of experience? What is the substance of experience?
Perhaps an aspect of Zen practice is to experience the opposite of "seeing opposites." :116: I assure you that one can know total rest at the most restless times in life, and the intensity of sometimes being intense and sometimes being intensely dull as an old blade.
Does rest ride on intensity or does it support it?
Please know the rest of intensity, the intensity of intensity, the rest of rest, the intensity of rest. Why would you think them not the same?

Gassho, J
It wouldn’t inspire me if they were the same.

Turtle Clan
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Re: Intensity

Post by Turtle Clan » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:03 am

el gatito wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:58 am

Say, the musician intentionally makes a "pause" in the middle of intensity.

The listener has no other choice but to experience the silent "continuation" of what has just suddenly stopped.
Thanks. Nothing stopped. There is a sense of stopped. How does that sense come to be if nothing stops.

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jundocohen
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Re: Intensity

Post by jundocohen » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:23 am

Turtle Clan wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:35 am

Does rest ride on intensity or does it support it?
.
Sometimes we rest, then get up and are intense. Sometimes we are intense, then lie down and are at rest.

But in a Buddha's Eye, there is Rest when intense and Rest when at rest. Rest and intensity are not two.

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Crystal
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Re: Intensity

Post by Crystal » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:10 am

Give me your best zen answers to this question.
I look in from time to time, but I am not really a "Zen practitioner".

I just prefer to let go, and relax beyond the intensity of many words.

May all beings have peace, good health and happiness.


_/|\_

Larry
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Re: Intensity

Post by Larry » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:21 am

:namaste:

Larry
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Re: Intensity

Post by Larry » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:46 am

Turtle Clan wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:35 am
Please know the rest of intensity, the intensity of intensity, the rest of rest, the intensity of rest. Why would you think them not the same?

Gassho, J
It wouldn’t inspire me if they were the same.
In that case let them be different.

el gatito
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Re: Intensity

Post by el gatito » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:11 pm

We are the musician and the listener at the same time. Can you "produce" your favourite music "in your head"? Can you "see" the face of your well known person with the eyes closed? Can you "rise" your hand without physically moving it? Not imagining the movement, but actually producing the same kind of physical effort needed to make the movement at the same time remaining motionless?

There is a good Theravada Buddhist practice manual called Visuddhimagga. There, in the section related to the 1st Jhana cultivation, specifically in the "preliminary work", one learns to "make", "do", "produce" the "image" of the physical object they are working with, regardless of it being visible thing, sound, smell, sensation, movement, etc. This is quite difficult, but in the process of learning one can investigate the true nature of what we call "experience" from both the musician and the listener aspect.

In the process of meditative investigation of "experience", its intensity, clarity, stability, etc.,we must be the "musician".

Maybe I don't understand the original question. Can you restate it, and give examples?

Larry
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Re: Intensity

Post by Larry » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:37 pm

Crystal wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:10 am
I just prefer to let go, and relax beyond the intensity of many words.
"It is not all right to let simplicity be fettered by complexity." - Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche

Turtle Clan
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Re: Intensity

Post by Turtle Clan » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:15 pm

Larry wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:37 pm
"It is not all right to let simplicity be fettered by complexity." - Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
It could be problematic to let simplicity be fettered by complexity. It could also be, it seems to me, not all right to let complexity be fettered by simplicity. Should one favor the former over the latter?

Larry
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Re: Intensity

Post by Larry » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:49 pm

A compromise would be useful. Hence el g’s request for a restatement with examples.

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fuki
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Re: Intensity

Post by fuki » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:26 pm

It's like with sensations, for instance "pain" and "pleasure" have the same nature but the mind labels them and experiences them differently due to memory, just like intensity/rest is a state of mind knowing one is not the instrument even the notions of 'same' or 'different' are merely 'explanations' made by and for the mind.

Whatever appears or is perceived as rest/intensity is depended on causes and conditions like the wind affecting the intensity of the surface waves, while freedom has no cause and no operation or label/experience of the instrument can affect the depths of one's true being, doesnt mean as long as the body-mind operates there are no sensations or different streams/knots of energy which we languistically label as this or that, like rest or intensity, it simply happens due to events but not invested they do not become an experience.

Just like standing on the beach one can speak about the intensity or rest of the water but its not your experience, until you identify with whatever happens theres no inquiry regarding the difference based on memory.

Not sure if I got the question though this instrument is still a bit stoned from yesterdays tooth pulling event :lol:

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fuki
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Re: Intensity

Post by fuki » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:29 pm

Turtle Clan wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:22 am

Give me your best zen answers to this question.
Don't temp me in getting creative with cucumbers please.... :lol:

Larry
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Re: Intensity

Post by Larry » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:36 pm

:lol:

Every thread seems to end with cucumbers, bananas or el g on the toilet :lol:

avisitor
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Re: Intensity

Post by avisitor » Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:29 am

Turtle Clan wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:22 am
What is it that distinguishes subtle degrees of intensity?
What is it that responds to the the flows and fluctuations of intensity and can know exactly when to settle, exactly where on this wave of physical and mental sensation to experience rest?


Give me your best zen answers to this question.
The answer to both questions are the same.
It is that which stands or sits in front of the mirror

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