'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

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p22
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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by p22 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:16 pm

I've no response other than Howdy back at ya, Joe 😊

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desertwoodworker
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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by desertwoodworker » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:21 pm

Jundo, it's evident that what you are doubting is in fact the reality of no-mind, not no-thoughts.

(in our awakened state or condition).

Let's be a little logical:

In "no-mind", how or where could there be thoughts?

See?, you really are dubious of no-mind. Shame on you. But it's only become an established Doctrine in Ch'an and Zen because it is a reality, experienced by practitioners who have awakened (starting with the Buddha as far as we may know).

But I'm not out to make anyone a "believer". There's enough un-founded belief in too many areas, and in religion. What one needs is to do the experiment, instead. That means, to wake up. That's better than belief.

It's my wish for everyone. And for stars, stones, and trees, too.

--Joe
Last edited by desertwoodworker on Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by desertwoodworker » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:33 pm

Crystal wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:12 pm
Like the morning mist that dissolves into thin air,
Going nowhere but ceasing to be,
Waves of conceptualization, all the mind's creation, dissolve,
When you behold your mind's true nature
Not bad!

It might even "last for weeks and months". :)

--Joe

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p22
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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by p22 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:37 pm

desertwoodworker wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:21 pm


It's my wish for everyone. And for stars, stones, and trees, too.

--Joe
And tree rings too?

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by desertwoodworker » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:39 pm

Tree, four, and the Olympic five rings, too, yep.

--Joe

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by Crystal » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:41 pm

desertwoodworker wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:33 pm
Crystal wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:12 pm
Like the morning mist that dissolves into thin air,
Going nowhere but ceasing to be,
Waves of conceptualization, all the mind's creation, dissolve,
When you behold your mind's true nature
Not bad!

It might even "last for weeks and months". :)

--Joe
.....or even for most of a lifetime! ;)

.

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by p22 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:44 pm

The Zen of shaming is rooted in how people feel not about others but about themselves- It's different than conviction, as in carrying out and on with a project or a discussion-

:namaste:

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desertwoodworker
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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by desertwoodworker » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:49 pm

Crystal wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:41 pm
.....or even for most of a lifetime! ;)
For a Bodhisattva, that would be a very enabling status: We make fewer mistakes when true Wisdom and true Compassion are able to arise freely in no-mind.

--Joe

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Crystal
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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by Crystal » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:55 pm

desertwoodworker wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:49 pm
Crystal wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:41 pm
.....or even for most of a lifetime! ;)
For a Bodhisattva, that would be a very enabling status: We make fewer mistakes when true Wisdom and true Compassion are able to arise freely in no-mind.

--Joe
For a Bodhisattva, that would be a very enabling status:
Ah yes, I remember taking Bodhisattva vows in a small group with one of my teachers....


.

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desertwoodworker
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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by desertwoodworker » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:56 pm

I don't understand. But quoting and replying a little:

p22 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:44 pm
The Zen of shaming is rooted in how people feel not about others but about themselves- It's different than conviction, as in carrying out and on with a project or a discussion-
There is no self, much less "others", is what it comes down to I'd say.

Incidentally, Guo Gu translated our teacher's death-poem thus:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ch'an Master Sheng Yen Poem

(Jan 22, 1931 – Feb 3, 2009)

Busy with nothing, growing old.
Within emptiness, weeping, laughing.
Intrinsically, there is no “I.”
Life and death, thus cast aside.

(translated by Guo Gu, 2009)

-----------------------------------------------------------

--Joe

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by p22 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:02 pm

desertwoodworker wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:56 pm
I don't understand. But quoting and replying a little:

p22 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:44 pm
The Zen of shaming is rooted in how people feel not about others but about themselves- It's different than conviction, as in carrying out and on with a project or a discussion-
There is no self, much less "others", is what it comes down to I'd say.

Incidentally, Guo Gu translated our teacher's death-poem thus:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ch'an Master Sheng Yen Poem

(Jan 22, 1931 – Feb 3, 2009)

Busy with nothing, growing old.
Within emptiness, weeping, laughing.
Intrinsically, there is no “I.”
Life and death, thus cast aside.

(translated by Guo Gu, 2009)

-----------------------------------------------------------

--Joe
I agree! There is no other to shame and yet the effort to do so is made -- due to some conditioning speck on the lens-

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desertwoodworker
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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by desertwoodworker » Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:04 pm

Yes, still don't get it. Maybe if you remove that speck and make a clear statement.

Joe

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by fuki » Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:11 pm

Here's some shaming cream :lol:


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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by p22 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:36 pm

desertwoodworker wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:04 pm
Yes, still don't get it. Maybe if you remove that speck and make a clear statement.

Joe
desertwoodworker wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:21 pm
Shame on you.
That's ^^^^ the speck-

:namaste:

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by fuki » Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:54 pm

The only shame is considering oneself to be anything in particular. :105:

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by p22 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:19 pm

Shame is experiencing a sense of worthlessness- It can support depression, and loathing of life-

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desertwoodworker
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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by desertwoodworker » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:24 pm

Shame on you. That fine post is not directed to you. Why don't you mind your own business, and when you have nothing substantive, quit trying to be meta- in a conversation. It's shameful.

Jeez, why is it always the nameless, faceless ones?

No sense of Yuma, obviously not an Arizonan... . :|

--Joe
desertwoodworker wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:21 pm
Shame on you.
That's ^^^^ the speck- [/quote]

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by desertwoodworker » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:26 pm

fuki wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:54 pm
The only shame is considering oneself to be anything in particular. :105:
Now, now; we'll use words as we need to, and want. And smilies! :lol:

(there may also be other shames than the one you mention, too, by the way, Marcel).

--Joe

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by desertwoodworker » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:43 pm

p22 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:19 pm
Shame is experiencing a sense of worthlessness- It can support depression, and loathing of life-
Jundo Roshi's "beyond" that. ;)

Advisory: if you're susceptible to those things, tune out.

--Joe

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by fuki » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:44 pm

p22 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:19 pm
Shame is experiencing a sense of worthlessness- It can support depression, and loathing of life-
Teresa, I understand but this is a Buddhist forum and Jundo to whom it is adressed to, can appreciate what "shaming" here means or inspires, which is not like ppl normally taking it emotionally/psychologically. But he can stand his ground, sorry if any further discussion might be offensive, not everyone is always the most "tactful" in speech, bearing in mind the difference between people.

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