'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

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jundocohen
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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by jundocohen » Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:55 pm

Episode 28 ... Our Team:
"Jundo explains the importance of lineage in Zen, how the teachings have been handed down over the centuries from Zen teachers to students, in an unbroken chain."
https://www.zen-of-everything.com/28

Episode 29 ... Zensex:
"Many Zen priests in Japanese Buddhism have active sex lives, others are celibate. We discuss how Buddhism treats sex, and how it makes the world go around."
https://www.zen-of-everything.com/29

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by fuki » Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:01 pm

jundocohen wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:55 pm
Episode 29 ... Zensex:
"Many Zen priests in Japanese Buddhism have active sex lives, others are celibate. We discuss how Buddhism treats sex, and how it makes the world go around."
https://www.zen-of-everything.com/29
Fun talk, I agree with most points, would have liked to hear a bit more about "peer pressure" Though sex may be a natural activity from an early age on most kids get the wrong message, from society/advertizement/parents etc so 'sex' then is not a spontaneous physical happening but happens in the head space and ppl are constantly pushed and pulled by their ideas of sex becoming just another emotional contraction of their self-images and self-loathing and megalomania is the result, sexual activity is mostly an aquired habit with ppl then defended as a "natural desire" or "instinct" In most ppl this remains unvestigated. Just see how many relationships are based on expectations and demands, ppl "love" their spouses depending on how they can provide or 'satisfy' their 'needs' confirming their self-images, when not met, ppl suffer and drag the ones who cant give what we want with them, hurt is the result. Relationships can be loving but mostly manipulative, but this seems accepted generally in society, because manipulation of others is what most children in kindergarden do to each other, and as adults our sexual drive is a dangerous tool.

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by p22 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:55 pm

"Romance" ruined sex-

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desertwoodworker
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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by desertwoodworker » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:47 am

Hi, Jundo,

And, thanks, to you.

Back from the birthday and Independence Day, and some road-trip weeks.

I will say again, for 4th or 5th time, there were no thoughts. I was able to function, do advanced mathematics, build parts of our new radio telescope, and even be hired by another research group to build some ground-support equipment for their sounding-rocket campaign at White Sands, New Mexico. I took on too much new stuff, though people could see I could accomplish it. After 2 1/2 months, the awakened state eroded.

That was the first time.

Since then, on and after other retreats and sesshin, this condition came again, but lasted shorter times. The purifications were less complete, so the awakenings lasted shorter times, but were invaluably instructive, and helpful and enabling in forming expedient ("skillful") means.

Well, all's well. I hope!

:namaste:

--Joe
jundocohen wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:34 am

I will trust and honor your interpretation of events because they are your events, and I cannot doubt your personal experience of them. If you say so, then it was so, and nobody can challenge what they mean to you.

Please also honor my interpretation that, just perhaps, you are misinterpreting the situation. You may have thought that you were having "no thoughts," and that your mind had "stopped," but part of your mind was obviously having thoughts sufficient to allow a fairly normal day-to-day life.

Again I ask, can you describe to me your experience of, for example, doing a crossword puzzle or planning a scientific experiment without thought? How did that work? Was it, for example, as if your hand just moved on its own by "automatic writing"?

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by p22 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:01 am

Direct, unencumbered experience without interruption from prohibitive, ongoing monitoring of the experience-

Just doing-

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fuki
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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by fuki » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:53 am

desertwoodworker wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:47 am
Hi, Jundo,

And, thanks, to you.

Back from the birthday and Independence Day, and some road-trip weeks.

I will say again, for 4th or 5th time, there were no thoughts. I was able to function, do advanced mathematics, build parts of our new radio telescope, and even be hired by another research group to build some ground-support equipment for their sounding-rocket campaign at White Sands, New Mexico. I took on too much new stuff, though people could see I could accomplish it. After 2 1/2 months, the awakened state eroded.

That was the first time.

Since then, on and after other retreats and sesshin, this condition came again, but lasted shorter times. The purifications were less complete, so the awakenings lasted shorter times, but were invaluably instructive, and helpful and enabling in forming expedient ("skillful") means.

Well, all's well. I hope!

:namaste:

--Joe
jundocohen wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:34 am

I will trust and honor your interpretation of events because they are your events, and I cannot doubt your personal experience of them. If you say so, then it was so, and nobody can challenge what they mean to you.

Please also honor my interpretation that, just perhaps, you are misinterpreting the situation. You may have thought that you were having "no thoughts," and that your mind had "stopped," but part of your mind was obviously having thoughts sufficient to allow a fairly normal day-to-day life.

Again I ask, can you describe to me your experience of, for example, doing a crossword puzzle or planning a scientific experiment without thought? How did that work? Was it, for example, as if your hand just moved on its own by "automatic writing"?
Joe, Guo Gu says it can last for years or even a lifetime :shock:
I "guess" there truly is no end to practise ;)
:namaste:

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by fuki » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:00 am

p22 wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:55 pm
"Romance" ruined sex-
:lol:
self-love-is-the-best-love.jpeg.jpg
self-love-is-the-best-love.jpeg.jpg (73.78 KiB) Viewed 4262 times

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by p22 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:04 pm

fuki wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:00 am
p22 wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:55 pm
"Romance" ruined sex-
:lol:

self-love-is-the-best-love.jpeg.jpg
No thank you ...jpg
No thank you ...jpg (49.98 KiB) Viewed 4246 times

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by fuki » Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:02 am

No self-love has nothing to do with any image or concept about one's self, that's called "me-time" :P
(though if listened to the zensex podcast, that too is part of the play)

ps Jundo, any respons from Kirk about the vegan/vegetarian topic listed?

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by p22 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:15 am

"Romance" has nothing to do with self love- Its an unnecessary concept, historical baggage, not selfless- Its dependent upon getting what one wants and expecting it- "You have nice eyes-" for example -- all of it is an act, a play, layered over an activity that doesn't need to be dressed up to be enjoyed-

I did listen to the podcast- 😊

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by p22 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:19 am


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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by fuki » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:53 am

:mrgreen:

Ah no, romance is just a word for me to describe an indescribable moment, like being a cat, a bird, the ocean, candelight or a lover, i.e. everything! Not romance as a dual notion, zen romance isn't ordinary romance, just like "self-love", the relation is non-objective. Romance as a concept is just a concept, but we rarely know what words points to when others use them because we have our own reference to what words mean, like "fear" "joy" "tomato soup" All concepts pointing to an experience which have a very wide spectrum. If you say "fear" or "joy" I dont know precisely what you are experiencing since my "fear" or "joy" or "soup" has a different taste, though when you have no past representation relating to images and words (sounds,smell,body,mind) and actually become/are a "bird, cat, the ocean, lover" etc then that is what I mean with "romance" Some ppl call it "suchness"

Not that I mind the conventional romance, I even have that with mom, that too can be selfless, any experience can be selfless since the self is just an overlay, which is another way of saying "self-love" or "freedom" Moments of two selfs can be enjoyed too, I like that romance very much. Though sometimes ppl ruin the romance by saying "isn't this romantic?" :lol:

Larry and I have our romantic moments, now all this romance talk is making me nostalgic. :lol:

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by jundocohen » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:35 pm

fuki wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:02 am

ps Jundo, any respons from Kirk about the vegan/vegetarian topic listed?
Well, neither he nor I am vegan/veg, so it would be a limited discussion. The few times that meat eating has come up, I have spoken of the traditional South Asian tradition (still today) of taking almost anything placed in the bowl, and the Japanese and Tibetan tendency to eat meat, with the Chinese emphasis on strict vegetarianism the exception. I support those who turn from meat eating as their personal path. I believe that animals do not think of birth and death in the same wallowing manner of human beings, although they do react to pain and an immediate threat or crisis. However, they should be humanely treated (I do not believe that is happening with factory farming). I also believe that less meat consumption would be better for the environment.

I do say, in my book manuscript "ZEN of the FUTURE!", the the resolution of this will be healthy laboratory created meat substitutes. In fact, if you have ever had excellent temple cooking, known as Shojin-ryori in Japanese, they already do amazing things with mushrooms, tofu and other items to simulate beef, chicken and fish dishes. I have been completely fooled by the cooks at several Japanese and Chinese monasteries.

Gassho, J

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by fuki » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:35 pm

jundocohen wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:35 pm

I believe that animals do not think of birth and death in the same wallowing manner of human beings,
Wallowing no, do they feel the pain (more intensly then we do) and think about where their children or human 'owner' is after a traumatic seperation, yes. But not thinking in the way of thought-formations, like we can think in dutch/english/japanese etc. But as you know humans too think before word-thoughts arise, most ppl especially non-practsioners aren't aware of that, animals "think" in a more raw experience, subtle energy stream without the associative word representations/reflections. Since animals experience everything so raw they deserve our protection instead of exploitation. Their death anxiety isn't conceptual yet they "think" about it, in a raw embodied experience, not so much the head-word space, dogs who've witnessed violent crimes are never the same again, the energy/anxiety is stored in their bodies, they have flashbacks, dream about it in the night, ptsd's, same as all the lifestock, those unspent energies or "karmas" have universal consequences, just like trees release co2 after a forest fire, animals 'release' their anxieties too in the cycle of manifestation (the birth/death thingy) so it's certainly a Buddhist topic to me. The karmic aspect of animals unspent emotions/feelings.
However, they should be humanely treated (I do not believe that is happening with factory farming)
Thanks, yes that's where my interest with Buddhism as a social function towards our mammal friends lie, as Buddhism is all about sentience. But I understand there might not be enough affinity/attraction or interest from your surroundings to fill 25 minutes with, perhaps in the future when causes/conditions change. Thanks for contributing and talking with me personally about it.

I do say, in my book manuscript "ZEN of the FUTURE!", the the resolution of this will be healthy laboratory created meat substitutes. In fact, if you have ever had excellent temple cooking, known as Shojin-ryori in Japanese, they already do amazing things with mushrooms, tofu and other items to simulate beef, chicken and fish dishes. I have been completely fooled by the cooks at several Japanese and Chinese monasteries.
Nice, spread the word to your local supermarkets and Buddhist supermarket shoppers, make buddhism cool again :P

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by p22 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:15 am

fuki wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:53 am
:mrgreen:

Ah no, romance is just a word for me to describe an indescribable moment, like being a cat, a bird, the ocean, candelight or a lover, i.e. everything! Not romance as a dual notion, zen romance isn't ordinary romance, just like "self-love", the relation is non-objective. Romance as a concept is just a concept, but we rarely know what words points to when others use them because we have our own reference to what words mean, like "fear" "joy" "tomato soup" All concepts pointing to an experience which have a very wide spectrum. If you say "fear" or "joy" I dont know precisely what you are experiencing since my "fear" or "joy" or "soup" has a different taste, though when you have no past representation relating to images and words (sounds,smell,body,mind) and actually become/are a "bird, cat, the ocean, lover" etc then that is what I mean with "romance" Some ppl call it "suchness"

Not that I mind the conventional romance, I even have that with mom, that too can be selfless, any experience can be selfless since the self is just an overlay, which is another way of saying "self-love" or "freedom" Moments of two selfs can be enjoyed too, I like that romance very much. Though sometimes ppl ruin the romance by saying "isn't this romantic?" :lol:

Larry and I have our romantic moments, now all this romance talk is making me nostalgic. :lol:
It could be a language mishap- Absolutely!

But the podcast was about sex- Not soup! :lol:

When people have chemistry, and are mindful of each others well being, things could get kitchen-ish- True- It could even involve soup! The onion peeled away to nothing-

So why add something (romance) to what simply comes naturally, why add something that doesn't need to be there?
Romance is an industry in the US, rooted in the ignorance of "never enough"- As if relationships need that attachment/expectation to navigate on top of the difficulties people have to navigate in relationships-

Fuck --- That -- Shit -- !

I appreciate your appreciation for everything you mentioned-
One of my children has Mom tattooed on their chest- Our hearts are a part of each others already- But I appreciate the emphasis, the art, the act, the selfless, collective effort- And it moved me to tears-

e.e. cummings the poet wrote:

*the root of the root and the bud of the bud
and the sky of the sky of a tree called life;
which grows higher than soul can hope or mind can hide
and this is the wonder that's keeping the stars apart

i carry your heart(i carry it in my heart)*

************

The wonder that's keeping the stars apart .. Not attached, independent- So we carry each others hearts in our hearts-

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by fuki » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:19 pm

p22 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:15 am


It could be a language mishap- Absolutely!

But the podcast was about sex- Not soup! :lol:

When people have chemistry, and are mindful of each others well being, things could get kitchen-ish- True- It could even involve soup! The onion peeled away to nothing-

So why add something (romance) to what simply comes naturally, why add something that doesn't need to be there?
Romance is an industry in the US, rooted in the ignorance of "never enough"- As if relationships need that attachment/expectation to navigate on top of the difficulties people have to navigate in relationships-

Fuck --- That -- Shit -- !

I appreciate your appreciation for everything you mentioned-
One of my children has Mom tattooed on their chest- Our hearts are a part of each others already- But I appreciate the emphasis, the art, the act, the selfless, collective effort- And it moved me to tears-

e.e. cummings the poet wrote:

*the root of the root and the bud of the bud
and the sky of the sky of a tree called life;
which grows higher than soul can hope or mind can hide
and this is the wonder that's keeping the stars apart

i carry your heart(i carry it in my heart)*

************

The wonder that's keeping the stars apart .. Not attached, independent- So we carry each others hearts in our hearts-
It seems we understand each other, and no I won't call it a 'romantic moment' that is more when ppl think we're fighting and arguing but really aren't. But I agree the romance you refer to (as a market or emotional strategy) is a superfluous ingredient to the soup. :D

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by p22 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:58 pm

fuki wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:19 pm
p22 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:15 am


It could be a language mishap- Absolutely!

But the podcast was about sex- Not soup! :lol:

When people have chemistry, and are mindful of each others well being, things could get kitchen-ish- True- It could even involve soup! The onion peeled away to nothing-

So why add something (romance) to what simply comes naturally, why add something that doesn't need to be there?
Romance is an industry in the US, rooted in the ignorance of "never enough"- As if relationships need that attachment/expectation to navigate on top of the difficulties people have to navigate in relationships-

Fuck --- That -- Shit -- !

I appreciate your appreciation for everything you mentioned-
One of my children has Mom tattooed on their chest- Our hearts are a part of each others already- But I appreciate the emphasis, the art, the act, the selfless, collective effort- And it moved me to tears-

e.e. cummings the poet wrote:

*the root of the root and the bud of the bud
and the sky of the sky of a tree called life;
which grows higher than soul can hope or mind can hide
and this is the wonder that's keeping the stars apart

i carry your heart(i carry it in my heart)*

************

The wonder that's keeping the stars apart .. Not attached, independent- So we carry each others hearts in our hearts-
It seems we understand each other, and no I won't call it a 'romantic moment' that is more when ppl think we're fighting and arguing but really aren't. But I agree the romance you refer to (as a market or emotional strategy) is a superfluous ingredient to the soup. :D
Image

The Church of Turtles all the way down, is it?

I love them anyway- 💓



😊

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by fuki » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:09 pm

:hatsoff:

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by Crystal » Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:02 pm

Larry wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:29 pm
Nothing wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:20 pm
Larry wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:54 pm
Maybe for the karmic benefit of the animal :mrgreen:
A better rebirth and in the human realm? :D
:D

Debatable :D
Totally. I honestly dont understand how people can enjoy eating the flesh and blood of other sentient beings. There are so many alternatives available now.

.....but, whatever :103:


.

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Re: 'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' with Jundo & Kirk is ON THE AIR!

Post by Crystal » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:05 pm

Larry wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:29 pm
Nothing wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:20 pm
Larry wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:54 pm
Maybe for the karmic benefit of the animal :mrgreen:
A better rebirth and in the human realm? :D
:D

Debatable :D
I honestly dont understand how people can enjoy eating the flesh and blood of other sentient beings. There are so many alternatives available now.

.....but, whatever :103:


.

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