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Zen sickness?

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:34 pm
by avisitor
This was an old topic from the days of ZFI
Does anyone remember what it was about?

Re: Zen sickness?

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:40 pm
by Nothing
Hakuin comes to mind

Re: Zen sickness?

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:41 pm
by Nothing
Hakuin comes to mind.
He talks about that in his autobiography Wild Ivy.

Re: Zen sickness?

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:45 pm
by Larry
Nothing wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:40 pm
Hakuin comes to mind
Love the way you dropped into silence when Hakuin came to mind :D

Re: Zen sickness?

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:56 pm
by fuki
avisitor wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:34 pm
This was an old topic from the days of ZFI
Does anyone remember what it was about?
Emptiness mostly☆, when it's seen as empty as a "objective thing" instead of full of service.

☆intellectually, however "suffering" from emptiness sickness myself, which was actually a good bypass (though also surpressive) for the time being, teachers who publically say nonzense like "for those stuck in emptiness there is no cure" themselves suffer from a sickness, ironically.

Hence I'm not really interested in granting attention to this "zen term" for its mostly used to put onself on a pedestal and belitteling others.

So fuck "zen sickness" all together, just another fantasy used to keep students in a sea of ignorance instead of actually helping or being supportive.

It might be helpful for one's own study/introspection but it's hindsight anyway, the term I've never seen being used productively in a non-objective relation, which says something about their own self-referentiality. :)

Re: Zen sickness?

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:48 pm
by Larry
Zen Sickness is an energetic imbalance from extreme practice. As Nothing says, suffered by Hakuin at one stage.

Hakuin also talked about Emptiness Sickness. As described by Fuki. An over attachment to Emptiness, or the Absolute, at the expense of the Relative. As suffered by Hindus :P

Re: Zen sickness?

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:54 pm
by fuki
Larry wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:48 pm
Zen Sickness is an energetic imbalance from extreme practice. As Nothing says, suffered by Hakuin at one stage.
Never read about the Hakuin thingy before, basically it happens when one has a mind for practise
As suffered by Hindus :P
:lol:

Yes "luckily" for "animal abuse" otherwise nothing could reach me "there" :lol:
;)

Re: Zen sickness?

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:00 am
by Autumnday
:waving:

Let go of Emptiness. Then you will find out that Emptiness is really fullness. ;)

Re: Zen sickness?

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:30 am
by avisitor
Hakuin spent much time in the practice of Zazen
Apparently, too much of a good thing can cause ills?
It caused a certain dryness of his lungs??
And he found a hermit who helped cure Hakuin??
By the use of another meditation method?
So is Sesshin a healthy thing to do?

Wait, wasn't there another type of Zen sickness?
I think it was when one person speaks and acts not in accordance to their experiences??
It could be that a person has had many experiences of kensho
But, speaks and acts like it never happened?
Or it could be that a person has had no experiences
But, speaks and acts like a teacher?
Think I was very critical of people who exhibited the latter.

Has anyone experienced the Zen sickness similar to Hakuin??
I would some times get very tired easily and headaches.
Don't think that counts.

Re: Zen sickness?

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:57 pm
by fuki
Autumnday wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:00 am
:waving:

Let go of Emptiness. Then you will find out that Emptiness is really fullness. ;)
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73392641.ALC5zy4p.jpg (64.41 KiB) Viewed 2565 times

Re: Zen sickness?

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:02 pm
by fuki
avisitor wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:30 am

Has anyone experienced the Zen sickness similar to Hakuin??
I would some times get very tired easily and headaches.
Don't think that counts.
Don't know Avi, didn't read the Hakuin thingy or if I did read some snippets I forgot about it.
Regarding the headache part, if memory serves Guo Gu's talk called "embodied experience" might have some pointers regarding that or any imbalance.
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=775#p15494

I do "suffer" easily from "neck/shoulder" cramps due to a shitload of injuries picked up along the way.

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:23 pm
by fuki
avisitor wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:30 am

Wait, wasn't there another type of Zen sickness?
I think it was when one person speaks and acts not in accordance to their experiences??
It could be that a person has had many experiences of kensho
But, speaks and acts like it never happened?
Or it could be that a person has had no experiences
But, speaks and acts like a teacher?
Think I was very critical of people who exhibited the latter.
Don't care, I leave that to the dharma police and dharma ghost protectors.
Highly praised teachers/practisioners turned out to be pedophiles or sexual predators
And scorned people or outcasts can be life savers
And many teachers (even a few respected ones currently in the Buddhist world) suffer from 'spiritual bypassing'
Constructive critisism is allright but don't lock up anyone in a mental picture based on past events/conduct
whether it's the "praised" or "blamed" ones

What you hear must enter you like an arrow and hit something deep within you.
There must be an internal reaction; without the reaction what you hear won't do you any good.
You should know it when the arrow reaches its mark.
~Sri Niz

Re: Zen sickness?

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:33 pm
by Nothing
Larry wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:45 pm
Nothing wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:40 pm
Hakuin comes to mind
Love the way you dropped into silence when Hakuin came to mind :D
:D
It was brain freeze, not samadhi :lol:

Re:

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:58 pm
by avisitor
fuki wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:23 pm
What you hear must enter you like an arrow and hit something deep within you.
There must be an internal reaction; without the reaction what you hear won't do you any good.
You should know it when the arrow reaches its mark.
~Sri Niz
And so I deeply wish there was someone who hits the mark and draws the internal reaction
:557: