Beginner's Mind

Moderator: fuki

Post Reply
avisitor
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:01 am

Beginner's Mind

Post by avisitor » Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:55 pm

Am hoping that more people, who become interested in Zen, come here to learn and ask questions
And a community builds up like we had on ZFI.

As some have said, there are no dumb questions
Only questions that have not been asked before

Am reminded of a story once read which was about a westerner who went to a Zen master to interview him.
The master invited the westerner to sit and have tea with him.
After they sat down, the Zen master took the teapot and began pouring the tea
And he did not stop when the cup was full. He just kept pouring.
The westerner said stop, the cup is full. No more will go in.
It was in Zen tradition to shock new comers to understand that they are full of thoughts about what Zen is or is not
One must have an empty cup to receive what is being offered.

So, does anyone have a question before he begins pouring the tea??
Am sure there are others here willing to help.

p22
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 7:49 pm

Re: Beginner's Mind

Post by p22 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:35 am

Great story :560:

I'm thinking of becoming kind of a beginner pioneer-
Is it a good idea?

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 471
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:10 pm
Location: Zandvoort, the Netherlands

Re: Beginner's Mind

Post by fuki » Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:50 pm

avisitor wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:55 pm
Am hoping that more people, who become interested in Zen, come here to learn and ask questions
And a community builds up like we had on ZFI.
What's left of most members here are I think long time practisioners who tend to not have (many) questions relating to practise. For that (zfi kind of activity) ppl new to zen-buddhism would have to register or hear about this place.
So, does anyone have a question before he begins pouring the tea??
I'd say you are both the question and the answer. :lol:

ps had this saved from a sheng yen book;
2018-04-02 13.12.00.jpg
2018-04-02 13.12.00.jpg (234.67 KiB) Viewed 429 times

Turtle Clan
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:25 pm

Re: Beginner's Mind

Post by Turtle Clan » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:08 pm

avisitor wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:55 pm
Am hoping that more people, who become interested in Zen, come here to learn and ask questions
And a community builds up like we had on ZFI.

As some have said, there are no dumb questions
Only questions that have not been asked before

Am reminded of a story once read which was about a westerner who went to a Zen master to interview him.
The master invited the westerner to sit and have tea with him.
After they sat down, the Zen master took the teapot and began pouring the tea
And he did not stop when the cup was full. He just kept pouring.
The westerner said stop, the cup is full. No more will go in.
It was in Zen tradition to shock new comers to understand that they are full of thoughts about what Zen is or is not
One must have an empty cup to receive what is being offered.

So, does anyone have a question before he begins pouring the tea??
Am sure there are others here willing to help.
First time I have heard this story related with a “westerner” as one of the protagonists. Could be, of course, but I am wondering why you have written it in this way.

My question is what did he hope to gain by interviewing a zen master.

avisitor
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:01 am

Re: Beginner's Mind

Post by avisitor » Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:11 pm

Turtle Clan wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:08 pm
First time I have heard this story related with a “westerner” as one of the protagonists. Could be, of course, but I am wondering why you have written it in this way.

My question is what did he hope to gain by interviewing a zen master.
This was a long time ago when westerner did not have access to Zen Buddhism or Zen centers.
Little was known, about Zen Buddhism, then to most westerners.
And that is how I remember the story.
Am sure that the story have evolved to accommodate the era in which it was being told.

What does anyone hope to gain by interviewing someone?
Knowledge??
Last edited by avisitor on Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

avisitor
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:01 am

Re: Beginner's Mind

Post by avisitor » Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:15 pm

fuki wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:50 pm
avisitor wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:55 pm
Am hoping that more people, who become interested in Zen, come here to learn and ask questions
And a community builds up like we had on ZFI.
What's left of most members here are I think long time practisioners who tend to not have (many) questions relating to practise. For that (zfi kind of activity) ppl new to zen-buddhism would have to register or hear about this place.

I'd say you are both the question and the answer. :lol:
And this is why there are so few members?
Because this is what is left of the older members who care to stay in touch?
Is this why Zen1.space has been revamped so many times??
Last edited by avisitor on Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Turtle Clan
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:25 pm

Re: Beginner's Mind

Post by Turtle Clan » Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:22 pm

avisitor wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:11 pm

What does anyone hope to gain by interviewing someone?
Knowledge??
Where does beginner’s mind happen here?
An interviewer’s cup cannot be empty, almost by definition.
It’s not serendipitously having a sudden encounter and seeing what ensues.

avisitor
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:01 am

Re: Beginner's Mind

Post by avisitor » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:25 am

Turtle Clan wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:22 pm
avisitor wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:11 pm

What does anyone hope to gain by interviewing someone?
Knowledge??
Where does beginner’s mind happen here?
An interviewer’s cup cannot be empty, almost by definition.
It’s not serendipitously having a sudden encounter and seeing what ensues.
You already have the answers.
Why are you asking the questions??

User avatar
desertwoodworker
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:27 am
Location: Southern Arizona desert / USA

Re: Beginner's Mind

Post by desertwoodworker » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:27 am

The so-called "beginners mind" is vastly over-rated. And, under-rated!

Best is to practice correctly, and at a good intensity that can be maintained, and increased. Always breaking new-ground.

That's my opinion, and encouragement. For myself, too.

--Joe

Turtle Clan
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:25 pm

Re: Beginner's Mind

Post by Turtle Clan » Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:17 am

avisitor wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:25 am
You already have the answers.
Why are you asking the questions??
It’s your answers I’m asking for.

avisitor
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:01 am

Re: Beginner's Mind

Post by avisitor » Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:26 am

Turtle Clan wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:17 am
avisitor wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:25 am
You already have the answers.
Why are you asking the questions??
It’s your answers I’m asking for.
Sorry, I have no answers. Only questions.
Oh, why could the interviewer's cup not be empty?
It is just a cup?

If one has eyes to see and ears to hear
Joe points directly at the answers
Or maybe someone else can answer your questions??

:113:

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 471
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:10 pm
Location: Zandvoort, the Netherlands

Re: Beginner's Mind

Post by fuki » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:40 pm


p22
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 7:49 pm

Re: Beginner's Mind

Post by p22 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:01 am

:105:

avisitor
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:01 am

Re: Beginner's Mind

Post by avisitor » Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:37 pm

A Priest, a Rabbi and, a Buddhist monk get on a boat and travel to the middle of the lake.
The Priest says he forgot his rosary in his bag on shore.
Then, he steps off the boat and begins to walk across the water to the shore.
The Monk say that he moved the Priest's bag and should go with him.
The monk steps off the boat and walks across the water to shore.
The Rabbis sees this and says that he should have no problem walking on water.
The Rabbi proceeds to get of the boat and sinks into the water of the lake.
The Priest turns around to see the Rabbi sink into the water and says to the monk,
"Maybe we should have told him about the pylons in the water".
The Monk replies, "What pylons?".

This story reminds me that the world or reality is just a matter of perspectives

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 471
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:10 pm
Location: Zandvoort, the Netherlands

Re: Beginner's Mind

Post by fuki » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:20 pm

avisitor wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:37 pm

This story reminds me that the world or reality is just a matter of perspectives
Not "the world" but the "private world" distorted by conditioned perspectives, also known as 'manifestation' or 'arising' (of the deluded/samsaric mind)

Hence the expedient of the "beginners mind" in Sheng Yen's talk to not position ourself anywhere on the roundabout.

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.' Because of this, I say, a Tathagata — with the ending, fading away, cessation, renunciation, & relinquishment of all construings, all excogitations, all I-making & mine-making & obsessions with conceit — is, through lack of clinging/sustenance, released."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

ofcourse there is no beginning or end of the path

avisitor
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:01 am

Re: Beginner's Mind

Post by avisitor » Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:36 pm

fuki wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:20 pm
avisitor wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:37 pm
This story reminds me that the world or reality is just a matter of perspectives
Not "the world" but the "private world" distorted by conditioned perspectives, also known as 'manifestation' or 'arising' (of the deluded/samsaric mind)

Hence the expedient of the "beginners mind" in Sheng Yen's talk to not position ourself anywhere on the roundabout.

ofcourse there is no beginning or end of the path
Too early for this.
I need to sit quietly for a while.

:106:

Post Reply