Ten Precepts

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avisitor
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Ten Precepts

Post by avisitor » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:31 am

These are the precepts I learned

Thou shall not

1. Kill
2. Steal
3. Misuse of sex
4. Lie
5. Deal in illegal drugs
6. Speak about faults of others
7. Praise yourself while abusing others
8. With-hold Dharma assets
9. Indulge in anger
10. Slander the Three Treasures: the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha

Think I got 8 or 9 out of 10
Still a work in progress :106:

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fuki
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Re: Ten Precepts

Post by fuki » Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:30 am

Thanks Avi,
I'm currently listening to GG's talks regarding precepts.
https://tallahasseechan.org/teachings/d ... pts-talks/

When I'm done with the 4 parts I might chip in.

avisitor
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Re: Ten Precepts

Post by avisitor » Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:50 pm

Thanks for the reply
However, I think this subject wont get many views

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fuki
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Re: Ten Precepts

Post by fuki » Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:14 pm

avisitor wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:50 pm
Thanks for the reply
However, I think this subject wont get many views
True and he also points that out in the first talk.
Thanks Avi, not many ppl come to practise to expose their shortcomings but to get something like "awakening" Precepts are essential, hence I like to be here and talk to ppl to share/uproot my own shortcomings, not as a (self) judgment, but to share, I find it joyous, not something to bury or feel heavy about (talking), we're in it together afterall.

p22
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Re: Ten Precepts

Post by p22 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:17 pm

avisitor wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:31 am
These are the precepts I learned

Thou shall not

1. Kill
2. Steal
3. Misuse of sex
4. Lie
5. Deal in illegal drugs
6. Speak about faults of others
7. Praise yourself while abusing others
8. With-hold Dharma assets
9. Indulge in anger
10. Slander the Three Treasures: the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha

Think I got 8 or 9 out of 10
Still a work in progress :106:
Those that are clear to me, I can answer I have-
As for the others, I don't know ..

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fuki
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Re: Ten Precepts

Post by fuki » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:32 pm

avisitor wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:31 am
5. Deal in illegal drugs
I have it as "not (ab)using intoxicants"
Which I don't always keep.

Some experts from Sheng Yen;
The Five Precepts
The devotional aspect of vinaya practice lies in
taking refuge in and relying on the Three Jewels,
namely the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha. On
the other hand, the practical aspect of vinaya practice,
where it ceases to be merely personal but begins to
shape one's interaction with others, is the keeping of
the five precepts: no killing, no stealing, no sexual
misconduct, no verbal misconduct, and no using
intoxicants. The five precepts are the simplest
codification of precepts in Buddhism, yet they are the
foundation upon which all the other systems of
Buddhist precepts and vows rest. No matter which set
of precepts we consider, including the exhaustively
detailed monastic code, not one of them falls outside
the scope of the five precepts. Not one of the various
codes of conduct that have evolved over Buddhism's
long history omits the five precepts. It is no
exaggeration to say that the five precepts are the most
important precepts in Buddhism.
At first sight, some might assume that the five
precepts are easy to keep because they appear to be
so simple. One might be tempted to assume that they
merely comprise a sort of universal code of acceptable,

civilized behavior. Such an assumption is, however,
quite superficial. After committing ourselves to
keeping and integrating the five precepts into our lives,
we soon come to realize that they are not as easily kept
as we might have thought. By living with the precepts
and by engaging in continued analysis and scrupulous
study of both the precepts and ourselves, we will begin
to penetrate them more deeply, and realize that they
are in fact extremely subtle. It is through applying
ourselves as best we can to the practice of the precepts
that we come to understand their significance, and
the profound influence they exert on us and on our
relationships with others.
As we noted before, all of the different systems of
precepts branch out from this fundamental code, so if
a practitioner cannot seriously commit to the practice
of the five precepts, it will be extremely difficult for
him or her to practice any of the other, more detailed,
systems. Conversely, a practitioner who can observe
the five precepts in the smallest detail would be said
to be very close to attaining a pure buddha land. For
this reason, all practitioners who wish to take the
bodhisattva precepts should pay special attention to
the observance of the five precepts. We should not be
casual about keeping the precepts and integrating them
into our daily lives in the mistaken belief that they
are simple and obvious. If we approach this practice
haphazardly, we deprive ourselves of the opportunity
to appreciate the many subtleties in the meaning and
function of the five precepts, and may never truly
experience the dignity and profound insight that
keeping these precepts affords.

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fuki
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Re: Ten Precepts

Post by fuki » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:35 pm

continued....
The Ten Good Deeds
Building upon the foundation of keeping the five
precepts, we can broaden and deepen our
practice of vinaya by going further to perform the ten
good deeds: renouncing killing, stealing, sexual
misconduct, lying, divisive speech, harsh language,
frivolous talk, craving, aversion, and deviant views. At
first sight these ten good deeds seem to overlap with
the five precepts, yet a closer look will quickly reveal
that they actually expand the range and depth of the
five precepts.
The ten good deeds are divided into three categories
of practice, commonly known as the purification of
the three kinds of actions: physical, verbal, and mental.
The first of these three practices, the purification of
physical actions, consists in observing the vows to
renounce killing, stealing, and sexual misconduct.
The second, the purification of verbal actions, requires
vigilant attention to what one says and how and why
one says it in order to keep the vows to renounce
lying, divisive speech, harsh language, and frivolous
talk. The third category of practice, the purification of
mental actions, lies in observing and guarding one's
mind in order to prevent craving, aversion, and deviant
views (such as the belief that sentient beings exist as
self-sufficient, lasting entities that exist in competitive
competition with a separate "I").
This last category of practice, as it specifically deals
with the functions of the mind, obviously extends the
scope of the five precepts. It certainly is not easy to
carry out, but by taking refuge in the Three Jewels
regularly, by cultivating mindfulness, and by learning
to steer our thoughts away from craving, aversion, or
deviant views, we will gain ground. What we engage in
through this practice is in fact the gradual dissolution of
what in Buddhism is called the three poisons, namely
craving, aversion, and ignorance, which are the root
of all vexations. Through our faith in the Three Jewels
and through our practice of the five precepts and ten
good deeds, we can progressively purify our minds-a
process in itself of inestimable help to all sentient
beings.

From here (pdf)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 6BOnvoGmVA

avisitor
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Re: Ten Precepts

Post by avisitor » Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:01 pm

p22 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:17 pm
Those that are clear to me, I can answer I have-
As for the others, I don't know ..
The one that confused me at first was indulge in anger.
I thought it meant to not get angry.
However, we all get angry sometimes.
It is just a matter of not dwelling there for too long.
When we have a choice, we make a conscious decision or more enlightened one

fuki wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:32 pm
avisitor wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:31 am
5. Deal in illegal drugs
I have it as "not (ab)using intoxicants"
Which I don't always keep.
I like to think of it as not being involved with illegal drugs whether (ab)using or otherwise

As for the rest of the post, too long for the short mental attention span this old man has
Will have to read it when interest is much higher

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Re: Ten Precepts

Post by Nothing » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:22 pm

Thanks for starting this topic Avisitor.
Precepts are generally neglected or taken too lightly by western buddhist practitioners, especially Zen Buddhist, even by those who take the precepts.

Right now I am reading Being Upright by Reb Anderson. It is about the Bodhisattva precepts.

I am busy this week but will comment more on the ten precepts you mentioned when time allows.
“Here it is--right now. Start thinking about it and you miss it.”
― Huang Po

https://beingwithoutself.org/retreats/

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Re: Ten Precepts

Post by p22 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:25 pm

#6 Is broken and cannot be repaired- It's just another concept rooted in passivity to keep people quiet and submissive rather than engaging in discussion and taking necessary action to work towards a solution-

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Re: Ten Precepts

Post by Nothing » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:26 pm

fuki wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:30 am
Thanks Avi,
I'm currently listening to GG's talks regarding precepts.
https://tallahasseechan.org/teachings/d ... pts-talks/

When I'm done with the 4 parts I might chip in.
Some time ago was listening them...
“Here it is--right now. Start thinking about it and you miss it.”
― Huang Po

https://beingwithoutself.org/retreats/

p22
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Re: Ten Precepts

Post by p22 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:28 pm

So, #6 is .. faulty ..

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Re: Ten Precepts

Post by desertwoodworker » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:31 pm

---

The Precepts: These Ways of a Buddha are the on-ramp to the BuddhaWay!

We can go from one "State" (samsara) to another/THE-other (original Nature). The first interstate! (highway). Autobahn?

--J.

precepts_10.jpg
From one State to the other, "Interstate"... via 10 Precepts
---
precepts_10.jpg (7.52 KiB) Viewed 3202 times

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fuki
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Re: Ten Precepts

Post by fuki » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:59 pm

p22 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:25 pm
#6 Is broken and cannot be repaired- It's just another concept rooted in passivity to keep people quiet and submissive rather than engaging in discussion and taking necessary action to work towards a solution-
Yes unfortunately this precept is abused by practisioners and also teachers to keep ppl's mouths shut and ironically surpress some faulty behaviour conduct. (also known as spiritual bypassing)

Does not mean the original function of the precept and what its designed for is faulty, but the way ppl abuse it unintentionally or deliberately via misunderstanding or malicious intent.

I see it as this; as long as one views him/her/andro-self as something in particular as in opposition to someone else, then criticism isn't constructive but only to set up the part against the whole, so it's then self-referential in expense of another, causing division. But there's room for constructive criticism if its to point out someones behaviour/conduct, for me if ppl criticize my behaviour then it's simply what true friends do, again not a personal attack ofcourse but for the sake of all beings, or the "One"

But that's easier said then done since ppl differ and most ppl feel it as a personal attack even if not intended as such, so that comes with skill too, and spending time with ppl and learning, relations(hips) change, I'm much more able to know what and what not, and when and when not to say something to my mother then 10 years ago. I think the precept is important but it's easily misused I agree.

I always joke with friends if they say "Asshole" I reply back; I'm not an asshole but you're right that I can behave as one. So you can criticize behaviour without attacking the (imagined) "person" or sense of self :D

Criticism is also a reminder there's no seperation, but mostly due to the sense of self/other it can cause division or polarization, so I get the precept, though I dont specifically know about its original intent thousands of years ago in Sanghas.

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Re: Ten Precepts

Post by fuki » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:03 pm

Nothing wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:26 pm
fuki wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:30 am
Thanks Avi,
I'm currently listening to GG's talks regarding precepts.
https://tallahasseechan.org/teachings/d ... pts-talks/

When I'm done with the 4 parts I might chip in.
Some time ago was listening them...
Congrats Brother, you just posted the 1000th post on zenspace! :mrgreen:
:109:

p22
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Re: Ten Precepts

Post by p22 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:43 pm

fuki wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:59 pm
p22 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:25 pm
#6 Is broken and cannot be repaired- It's just another concept rooted in passivity to keep people quiet and submissive rather than engaging in discussion and taking necessary action to work towards a solution-
Yes unfortunately this precept is abused by practisioners and also teachers to keep ppl's mouths shut and ironically surpress some faulty behaviour conduct. (also known as spiritual bypassing)

Does not mean the original function of the precept and what its designed for is faulty, but the way ppl abuse it unintentionally or deliberately via misunderstanding or malicious intent.

I see it as this; as long as one views him/her/andro-self as something in particular as in opposition to someone else, then criticism isn't constructive but only to set up the part against the whole, so it's then self-referential in expense of another, causing division. But there's room for constructive criticism if its to point out someones behaviour/conduct, for me if ppl criticize my behaviour then it's simply what true friends do, again not a personal attack ofcourse but for the sake of all beings, or the "One"

But that's easier said then done since ppl differ and most ppl feel it as a personal attack even if not intended as such, so that comes with skill too, and spending time with ppl and learning, relations(hips) change, I'm much more able to know what and what not, and when and when not to say something to my mother then 10 years ago. I think the precept is important but it's easily misused I agree.

I always joke with friends if they say "Asshole" I reply back; I'm not an asshole but you're right that I can behave as one. So you can criticize behaviour without attacking the (imagined) "person" or sense of self :D

Criticism is also a reminder there's no seperation, but mostly due to the sense of self/other it can cause division or polarization, so I get the precept, though I dont specifically know about its original intent thousands of years ago in Sanghas.
Exactly- It's haphazardly tossed on the list- (the parts in green)

I understand in regard to fault everyone falls somewhere on a spectrum, from A to Z- It's shared- Emphasis on shared not fault, therefore, inviting meaningful discussion-

Not shut-up ..

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Re: Ten Precepts

Post by fuki » Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:54 am

p22 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:43 pm

Exactly- It's haphazardly tossed on the list- (the parts in green)
If I look at ppl in my enviroment for 30+ years I noticed that many people have the habit of when together always talk about someone who's not in the room, they call it 'socializing' but it's just gossiping, speaking of the "faults" of others is often to cover up our own faults/transgressions, its a manifestation of distracting from looking inward.

Ever notice how uncomfortable ppl get when there's no talking, what they call "silence"? Let alone if they're alone with their thoughts, so whether it's watching tv, going to a bar or "socializing" with friends, much human behaviour is based on distracting oneself from one's own churning conflicts and gossiping about others is a symptom of that, sometimes ppl are just bored and out of habit gossip, kids do it, parents do it, schools gossip, the media is hardly about real journalism (I miss the 80's-the dutchy reporters) but basically just gossiping, setting up their agenda by demonizing the others, another symptom that theres little good on their own program or intentions, same as the gossip between "friends"

Perhaps there was/is a lot of gossiping with monks?
I don't know because I've never been one, not even method acting a monk's life, would have to lose "some" pounds/kilos :lol:

So in that context I think the precept is a good one because most talking about the faults of others, is counterproductive and harmful for both parties, or all parties named sentience, since I see "karma" as something collective mostly.

But yes, for me it doesn't mean not pointing out or discussing our (unwholesome) behaviour with each other, and ofcourse in some cases, however one perceives it, speak up always even if it offends. As mentioned earlier, if not allowed to talk about ppl's transgressions (which I dont perceive as the other but just behaviour from an universal focal point) then I might as well bend down to any pedophile priest or whatever. I think it's mostly refers to ourselfs, refrain from habits ad gossip otherwise theres no true practise or "turning the light inward" just the usual "social" cultural conditioning, talking about the faults of "others" must be done at times, for the benefit of the whole.

I might ask GG about this specific precept
ikkyu_v02_c08_p157-scaled1000.jpg
ikkyu_v02_c08_p157-scaled1000.jpg (148.08 KiB) Viewed 3167 times
I understand in regard to fault everyone falls somewhere on a spectrum, from A to Z- It's shared- Emphasis on shared not fault, therefore, inviting meaningful discussion-

Not shut-up ..
:115:

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Re: Ten Precepts

Post by p22 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:27 am

The last frame of the comic, the dharmavegan topic: Splat! 😊

We (all) are standing in the shadow of what's already happened and is about to- Proceed with compassion- And when you cannot, fight like fuck -- without mistaking one for the other-

The black-eyed susan seeds I planted in the garden migrated and are growing between the cracks in the pavement-

avisitor
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Re: Ten Precepts

Post by avisitor » Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:49 am

#6 do not speak of others faults ... is broken?
I do not know if it is broken.
But as Fuki says, it is often misused

Could it be closer to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"??
Am old and short on attention. Please forgive me if I do not understand.

Would it help to look at this precept from the point of view of an enlightened being??
If one is wise and has lots of compassion then one would not speak about the faults of others??
Not that one would not keep silent if it would hurt others??

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Re: Ten Precepts

Post by p22 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:25 am

avisitor wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:49 am
#6 do not speak of others faults ... is broken?
I do not know if it is broken.
But as Fuki says, it is often misused

Could it be closer to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"??
Am old and short on attention. Please forgive me if I do not understand.

Would it help to look at this precept from the point of view of an enlightened being??
If one is wise and has lots of compassion then one would not speak about the faults of others??
Not that one would not keep silent if it would hurt others??
The section of his comments I highlighted in green didn't get addressed ..

If not broken, then open to interpretation of the type that could result in breakage/harm, the type of harm he mentioned and addressed?

So it would be prudent to clarify its true meaning-

If not, then yes, it's a broken precept-

"Do unto others" has just as many psychological booby-traps-

There is no such thing as a statically-enlightened being-

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