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Unity of Buddhism

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:39 pm
by Nicholas
Someone may be working on this now, if not, consider pinning an article giving what Chan etc. has in common with the rest of Buddhism.

Never mind defining Zen etc in that article, just so new folks realize it is rooted in common doctrines & practices of all of Buddhism.

Re: Unity of Buddhism

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:15 am
by desert_woodworker
There is no "General Buddhadharma".

Only discrete and definite Buddhist schools exist. Some who existed have died, perhaps, but their philosophy and writings "subsist". Maybe fortunately. ;)

Ch'an and other schools definitely live, and continue. Kudos!

See a teacher and sangha for the gifts of Dharma therein preserved, encapsulated, promulgated, and expressed. Free of charge. But, support the wellspring of the teaching and your unification with It, as you can (you'll know what to do).

--Joe

Re: Unity of Buddhism

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:01 pm
by daibunny
Afaik all buddhist traditions accept the four noble truths, the precepts (at least the five) and the three marks/ four seals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_marks_of_existence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Dharma_Seals

Re: Unity of Buddhism

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:40 pm
by Nicholas
daibunny wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:01 pm
Afaik all buddhist traditions accept the four noble truths, the precepts (at least the five) and the three marks/ four seals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_marks_of_existence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Dharma_Seals
Quite so, along with the Three Jewels, sila, samadhi & prajna, rebirth, karma-phala, etcetera. These are among the fundamentals all lineages accept, even though the interpretation or explanation may vary somewhat.

Re: Unity of Buddhism

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:54 am
by Great Sage EofH
daibunny wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:01 pm
Afaik all buddhist traditions accept the four noble truths, the precepts (at least the five) and the three marks/ four seals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_marks_of_existence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Dharma_Seals
Except some scholars feel they were added to the texts at a later date by the arahants. Fortunately Zen is mind-to-mind transmission outside these scriptures.

Re: Unity of Buddhism

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:16 pm
by Caodemarte
It seems rather like asking Catholics to prove that they have much in common with the rest of Christianity or Lennon and McCartney if they had some connections to the Beatles.

Re: Unity of Buddhism

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:52 am
by daibunny
SunWuKong wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:54 am
daibunny wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:01 pm
Afaik all buddhist traditions accept the four noble truths, the precepts (at least the five) and the three marks/ four seals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_marks_of_existence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Dharma_Seals
Except some scholars feel they were added to the texts at a later date by the arahants. Fortunately Zen is mind-to-mind transmission outside these scriptures.
Well the 4nt and the precepts are training material, something that helps one set foot on the path. The seals and the marks are experientially verifiable. Were you saying that the 4nt and the precepts were added to the scriptures later?

Re: Unity of Buddhism

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:34 pm
by Caodemarte
SunWuKong wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:54 am
daibunny wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:01 pm
Afaik all buddhist traditions accept the four noble truths, the precepts (at least the five) and the three marks/ four seals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_marks_of_existence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Dharma_Seals
Except some scholars feel they were added to the texts at a later date by the arahants. Fortunately Zen is mind-to-mind transmission outside these scriptures.
As a Buddhist tradition, the 4NT and all the rest are indeed part of Zen Buddhism (which seems a very orthodox Buddhist school to me). Zen often defines itself as not dependent on the scriptures, but never against them or separate from them. Its claimed ancestors in transmission include many of those who defined Mahayana Buddhism (Buddha, Nagarjuna, Vasubhandu, etc.). As the saying goes Zen is (true) Sutra study, Sutra study is Zen. The trick being not to get caught by anything.

Re: Unity of Buddhism

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:15 pm
by fuki
It's in the nature of our Hearts to seek unity, but it's in the tendency of the conditioned mind to include and leave stuff out.
In the end there is really no such thing as Dharma, just temporary expedient means. We call them Buddhadharma or whatever but scriptures are like pills, I see no merit in thinking about if the guy in the hospital next to me has the same inscription or lies in a Ch'an bed or even a Buddhist one. It's not about that for me.

Re: Unity of Buddhism

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:02 am
by Great Sage EofH
There is a general universal Buddhadharma for me. Those are the lessons I learn over and over again, no matter how adept at change (in the easy things) I may become. Not just philosophy, psychology, or spirituality. Nothing wrong with those things, I just don’t pursue then for their own sake

Re: Unity of Buddhism

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:37 pm
by fuki
SunWuKong wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:02 am
There is a general universal Buddhadharma for me. Those are the lessons I learn over and over again, no matter how adept at change (in the easy things) I may become. Not just philosophy, psychology, or spirituality. Nothing wrong with those things, I just don’t pursue then for their own sake
Sorry I don't follow, what don't you pursue?

Speakin of universal "dharma" I don't exclude other paths (non-buddhism) from it, for instance advaita vendata, sufism etc
but I'm usually called a heretic for it ;)

Re: Unity of Buddhism

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:49 pm
by Great Sage EofH
I don’t pursue psychology, philosophy, or spirituality as distinct and seperate disciplines. Just Buddhism alone is too big to fully and deeply study. I study what makes me alive, awake, and well. Even then it’s s big order. Especially considering my many character flaws.

Re: Unity of Buddhism

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:56 pm
by fuki
SunWuKong wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:49 pm
I don’t pursue psychology, philosophy, or spirituality as distinct and seperate disciplines. Just Buddhism alone is too big to fully and deeply study. I study what makes me alive, awake, and well. Even then it’s s big order. Especially considering my many character flaws.
Thanks, I get it.
Ah don't we all (thus I have heared) :P

Never seen such a thing as a flawless character outside of my imagination.

Re: Unity of Buddhism

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:40 pm
by fuki
desert_woodworker wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:15 am
There is no "General Buddhadharma".
--Joe
neti neti :lol:

Re: Unity of Buddhism

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:26 am
by lobster
fuki wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:56 pm
Never seen such a thing as a flawless character outside of my imagination.
Indeed :namaste:

The perfect jewel, forum, master, zendon't, zen do, Buddhism is a :114: fantasy ... :112:

But ... :namaste: good news, we can make use of any cherries on the tree, ground or orchard of fruit trees ... :105:

Some of us may give off a little whine ... from time to time, that's the spirit :109:

Re: Unity of Buddhism

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:13 pm
by fuki
Did you mean wine? Never tasted tears from a tree before :lol:

Ah yes it is a myth.